The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF virtual intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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>> MARKUS KUMMER: Hello, everyone, this is Markus here. We are at the top of the hour, but we are waiting for a few participants to join, let give us a minute or two before we start the meeting. All right let's get started then. Let's start with the good news. We have moderators, Tatiana and Jennifer who I presume will who has not joined yet but said she would join us. We had a call with the two of them and they would like to share with you their ideas.
The other good news is I can confirm that both the technical and UNDESA have agreed to be represented at our DC main session as well as Anriette, the MAG Chair. We have said in previous calls that this is the important bit of our main session when we discuss the future of how the Dynamic Coalition will contribute to the IGF plus. But are any cofacilitators on the call? Anything else you would have me to say before we invite Tatiana and Jennifer to share their ideas of how to manage the session with us.
>> TATIANA TROPINA: Thank you very much, Markus. I will try to ask Adam to join the call. Very nice to see you, although I don't see you because most don't have cameras on. So about the session itself, Markus and Jutta and Adam and Sorina, of course, shared the outline with me and as far as with me and Jennifer. As far as I understand the outline was discussed with you, the Dynamic Coalitions so I will be speaking frankly here. My first thought when I saw your outline was from a previous experience of moderating the sessions with Dynamic Coalitions is that how are you going to match the ambition of having two parts of the session with the first part where the Dynamic Coalitions are going to present their work or with the fact that it's only 45 minutes and then the second part of the session is reserved for broader discussion with external speakers.
As far as I understand that was your ambition, but I wanted to warn you that, frankly, I'm not a wizard, I cannot make the time longer. I cannot make 1.5 hour session, you know, a threehour session. If you want to proceed with a session that consists of two parts and the second part is more forward looking and trying to put Dynamic Coalitions in the broader context of the IGF and the future and the Internet Governance and all of these goals, you really need to be quite brief. And quite consistent with what you want to achieve in the first part of the session.
I want to know how many speakers you are going to have, and I want to hear your ideas in advance so we can structure them. I can tell you if it's 13 speakers like it used to be in the previous times, we do not have enough time unless you can talk about your Dynamic Coalitions in 14 minutes. So I don't think that this is going to happen in the same format as it used to be before.
So what we are trying to propose is that we will try to make it more kind of not really Q and A like we did before, Q and A based on your papers and maybe shared with you in advance, different release time. So the first 45 minutes, we are still trying to think how to put your work into perspective, but perhaps we can ask some questions related to Dynamic Coalition, but in the entire context of the IGF, in the entire context of digital cooperation and this road and sort of paving the way to the session, to the second part of the session.
This is still something that we have to discuss between Markus, Jennifer, Sorena, Adam and me. Before we even start, I just want to hear from you what are your thoughts on this? How do you think this is manageable with so many of you to have 45 minute session? Do you have any ideas on how we can structure it better. My idea was to speak about your work, Jennifer and I will speak about your work at the beginning saying what you are doing, what you are aiming to do and then structure it as more questions to you, but more overarching questions where you can make short interventions from your perspective, and then have a second session.
So I want to know what you think about this. And if you degree, please share your thoughts on how to manage with tons of speakers. I want to warn you that we have to make it manageable, we have to make it possible, I am here to make it possible, and you know that I can, but it cannot be same old story because we have twice less time. So I will be happy to hear from you. Markus, do you want to manage queue or should I do these.
>> MARKUS KUMMER: You will be most happy to manage the queue as the future moderator to get the feeling of the Dynamic Coalitions. Just two points, you are a magician or a wizard. You have modest ideas. You have the experience of managing a complex session, and I think drawing on that experience is very helpful. I would also like to give a special welcome to Wii Min from UNDESA who has joined the session and promised us participation on the main session, but back to you, manage the session, Tatiana.
>> TATIANA TROPINA: Thank you very much. I do not see any hands raised. I see an intervention from Wout saying he agrees, he puts plus one here, Wout, please go ahead. I see your hand up.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: Yes, that was, I was waiting for everyone to finish their comments. From my experience as a moderator at IGF sessions of which I have had many over the past years, it's my experience that if you let everybody speak within their own time and their own ideas, then the session will be over before someone can ask a question in the audience and your 90 minutes are long.
So I stepped away from that years ago and made it a very direct sort of session because if we want to have some sort of result, it means we have to prepare the questions you want people to answer on. I think that we have this sort of session this year because we are completely forward looking in the new modality that the IGF is transgressing towards. So we are in transition, and we need to find out what the Dynamic Coalitions are able to achieve in the coming here years and how that will feed into the UN processes in the future. Or we communicate with the UN processes and (Technical difficulty)
>> TATIANA TROPINA: The Dynamic Coalitions each will have their own session. The point is that our session, the joint session is on Wednesday, not somewhere at the end of the week. So for some Dynamic Coalitions, people are not aware of their work and they have no idea about the session because it's after. This is why we came up with the idea that perhaps the second moderator and I are going to present very briefly who is with this, you know, like a table on the screen which session to attend, and I think that your idea about having a moderated discussion between Dynamic Coalitions rather than Q and A with a couple of overarching questions and input might be a good idea.
So I have in the queue just because Sorina cannot raise her hand to Wai Min and then Sorena and then Eileen.
>> WAI MIN KWOK: Thank you to Markus for the warm welcome. I'm here on behalf of our Director who knows Markus and some of you well. So he sends his special regards as well. So my apologies I missed first few minutes. I came in and Tatiana was mentioning the challenge of Tom and also not to discuss. I would like to add to this discussion and apologies if that has been discussed somehow, from DESA, we very much like to look at how IGF can contribute to the global digital compact.
There was just recently highlighted in the SG report on our common agenda in paragraph 93 that's also highlighted the role of IGF on global digital combat. This is something that will be discussed starting now and over the next two years, the intention of the or at least the recommendation of the SecretaryGeneral is to have the compact by 2023 during which there is Summit of future generation.
Because of the nature of the Dynamic Coalition being multitopic, multisectoral, multistakeholder and multidisciplinary, I think it's good as possible as a very clear idea of how the Dynamic Coalitions can actually credibility to the various issues that will be included in the global digital compact. So that is more of a high level suggestion. Of course, we need to look into the detail. The second part also related to the common agenda is that we call for the figure to adapt and reform. I believe Dynamic Coalitions as a group is actually plays a big part. We have seen to see now the NRI network has kind of matured over the past ten years and, of course, people like Markus and many of you play a role in that.
So Dynamic Coalition is different, of course, but I think it can actually be part of this adapt and reform process of the IGF. I will stop here, back to you. Thanks.
>> TATIANA TROPINA: Sorena, you are the next in the queue because you raised your digital hand in the chat and then Eileen, we are going to you.
>> SORINA TELEANU: Thank you, Tatiana and hello everyone. Just a quick note because you asked how many Dynamic Coalitions I expected to speak. I have probably in the context of our discussion only five Dynamic Coalitions have submitted their papers which means there is really not so much interest to speak in that segment. So probably our concern is not even there. But stopping here, thank you, Tatiana.
>> TATIANA TROPINA: I must admit that I'm going to share my, I mean, I wouldn't say that I'm going to share my joy because I want as many Dynamic Coalitions to join as possible. We have representatives of Dynamic Coalitions here but the deadline for the paper submission is closed, am I right?
>> SORINA TELEANU: Yes.
>> TATIANA TROPINA: Great. So does that mean we will have five speakers only? That was a question Mark?
>> SORINA TELEANU: It stays like that, let's see.
>> TATIANA TROPINA: I must admit, guys, those of you who have not submitted a paper but you want to participate, please do indicate this because you are increasing our uncertainties greatly, and also you might, I mean, for me, it doesn't matter if my job is easier or harder, but it is much easier for us, for the moderators to sort of make the outline of the discussion, make the discussion to present you in the best possible way if we know what you are doing. Sometimes from your name we can have an idea, but we have no idea about your recent development.
So we need a bit more coordination here. I will stop here. Eileen, please go ahead.
>> EILEEN CEJAS: Thank you, and sorry for joining a bit late on behalf of the youth coalition. So we need to understand how the idea of the administration is going, but so far for what we hear, I think it's a good idea that you took that approach of making a good introduction at the beginning of the work of the Dynamic Coalitions and that you make different questions to the Dynamic Coalitions. So that's a comment.
The other comment, let's see, when we would see the more, how do you say more concrete document of the outline of the session, but maybe that's a question that is also related to the
>> TATIANA TROPINA: I would like to say that you are going to see tomorrow, but it's not going to happen tomorrow. I need to have an idea how many speakers are going to be there so, I mean, we still have some time, right, some more or less ample time. So I do hope that in the next couple of weeks, we can have some more concrete suggestions and send a concrete outline. It will also depend on your input now so we can choose how to structure the session because for now I know only two things, that we have two parts, right one for Dynamic Coalitions and one for external speakers, these are one thing I know, and another thing I know, but it might be a known unknown that we will have five speakers which might not be true.
So I would say that it will greatly depend on your input and also on how quickly well get information, more certain information. I know that this is not the good answer, perhaps this is the no the right answer, but this is the best answer I can get.
Still, do I think that a couple of weeks will give us still two weeks before the IGF. So you will have ample amount of time to prepare. I hope this is all right.
>> Thank you very much.
>> TATIANA TROPINA: I can promise to you that this is not going to app at the very last moment because I don't like lastmoment things myself. So this is going to try and promise and I will try to stick to my promise. So the next is in the queue is
>> SIVASUBRAMANIAN: As I was saying the first part of the session is well set and it's with the topic IGF Dynamic Coalitions and digital cooperation. It could turn into an introductory and outreach session even though it's not intended to be like this given the topic and given the panelists from its Dynamic Coalitions so the first part of the session might inform the IGF participants about the work of the Dynamic Coalitions and how it contributes to digital cooperation and all of that.
So given that thought, the second part with external speakers, can we focus on a big question, a really big question, like the pandemic is the setting at this point in time, and security has become very, very important, quite a lot of work needs to be done in the area of security, and one question that all Dynamic Coalitions together to examine is how to tackle the issue related to security and Internet. Without compromising on the very nature of the Internet. So that is something that will be a big question. The group could come up with other big questions to address, maybe even the environment or maybe even about how Internet do be, could be of signature use in global development and so on.
So can we look at a big question for the second part with suitable speakers. Thank you.
>> TATIANA TROPINA: My immediate comment, I will, of course, follow your lead here, you are the Dynamic Coalitions, you want to structure and ask the questions in the second part the way that presents you or benefits you, my immediate reaction would be one thing. With this discussion, it can quickly go out of place, out of the idea of Dynamic Coalitions, would I instruct you to ask the question that's would not be outward looking only, that would involve the entire earth under the sun if you know what I mean, but rather also place you as Dynamic Coalitions because it is your session.
Make this external speakers place you in the context of all of this. Make these external speakers speak about you as well rather than drifting into this general issues.
So if you guys, again, I'm here to serve you in a way, it's not like you are here to serve me. I'm here to moderate your session. So if you have an idea of a big question that you can ask or big questions or big turn of the discussion, please go ahead, but I thought that the first idea of, you know, asking more the future of Dynamic Coalition in the context of the IGF, you can, of course, fine tune it to some of the questions or make me as a moderator to name big topics that can set the scene, like what can we look forward to? What are the big issues in front of us?
And set the context of the Dynamic Coalition discussion in these big questions, fine. I would like to warn you that because we have external speakers, you have to push me and them to keep the discussion in line with your goals, otherwise you are wasting 45 precious minutes of your joint session.
I see that there are two of you, I see your hand is up. So which one?
>> No, no, I'm on the phone and the computer. Just a quick reaction. The idea is not to go out of our scope, go beyond the IGF, but to ask a big question and place the Dynamic Coalitions in context of that big question. So if we invite certainly speakers we will tell them, first of all, about the role of the Dynamic Coalitions and what we are doing, and then ask the big question and maybe the panelists will relate the work to be done to the position of Dynamic Coalitions to the role of IGF through the Dynamic Coalitions and so on. Thank you.
>> TATIANA TROPINA: Thank you so much.
>> MARKUS KUMMER: Tatiana, if you would allow me to jump in. Strong support of what you said.
It was a common understanding of the Dynamic Coalitions, the big question would be the future of the IGF and the role of the Dynamic Coalition in the future of the IGF. I mean, what Siva has proposed is a slightly different track, but I any what you suggested was in a way combining the two, look in what way in terms of substance the Dynamic Coalition can contribute to a strengthened future IGF. It's not a construction as such, but clearly there was a general understanding of the Dynamic Coalitions that really a strong focus should be on their role in the future of the strengthened IGF and also this compact the SecretaryGeneral proposes in the digital cooperation.
And just a question I have, you said before you wanted the external speaker as a separate group speaking among themselves. I just wonder whether it would not be more dynamic having them interact with Dynamic Coalitions instead of having them in a separate group. This is more of a question. Thanks.
>> TATIANA TROPINA: I was thinking, Markus, would you ask by me that we are going to combine the external speakers with the interventions from Dynamic Coalition, but we can think actually if there could be more me asking questions or me moderating the questions between Dynamic Coalitions and external experts. The second one is a harder job, but it might provide a better structure.
>> MARKUS KUMMER: You are the wizard, I'm sure you can do it.
>> TATIANA TROPINA: I'm open to both options, and also to follow up on your comment, I do think that we can combine with a bigger question of the future of the IGF and the Dynamic Coalition as in its reduction a couple of pointers let's say about cybersecurity or governance of crisis like pandemic or whatever, can discuss it later so it's more granular there.
My goal here was first to get an idea having two parts, one part how we manage the speaker, now it's becoming clear. So we can discuss how and in what way we can combine big question and give a couple of pointers. Markus, do you have any immediate reaction or should I go to Mark.
>> MARKUS KUMMER: I think what you said makes very much sense. My preference would be just to have it as dynamic as possible and it may be more difficult for you, but you are the excellent moderator, so.
>> TATIANA TROPINA: I'm going to cry online.
>> MARK CARVELL: Yes, thank you, Tatiana, and thank you Markus. I'm very much in sympathy with what you are saying. The first half could be quite interactive with Dynamic Coalitions, and I put in the chat a suggestion for how to do this in 45 minutes in such a way is that you provide the opportunity to, provide a bit of a showcase for a wide number, but they don't all have long presentations or interventions.
What I suggest you might consider doing in terms of format, an interactive format is that you break up the topic, which is digital policy debate into different aspects and you prime up individual Dynamic Coalitions to respond on each of these different aspects. Now, these aspects could be how does, how can Dynamic Coalitions contribute to sustainable development goals, how do Dynamic Coalitions contribute to human rights debates on line, online rights, job protection maybe specifically., how do Dynamic Coalitions address emerging new technology impacts? How do Dynamic Coalitions address climate change, environmental debate? Maybe a broad sort of multisectoral cooperation on digital transformation.
So individual Dynamic Coalitions could be asked to give one example of how they advance debate on one of those aspects. So you get about a fiveminute intervention from individual coalitions and it's focused on what that coalition does in terms of contributing to that particular policy issue which they have chosen or self-selected. But it is dynamic in terms of the format.
It may be a bit of reaction as well and maybe an opportunity for the technical envoy to say, yes, that's a good example of exactly how we have a Dynamic Coalition contributing to that particular part of the digital cooperation roadmap or the global commons, whatever. You could get quick feedbacks of those examples so that would take you up to 45 minutes. And then we really look to the future in a very cooperative way on the role of Dynamic Coalitions in the future architecture of Internet Governance as a second part as I think is my understanding the future of digital cooperation and the role that DCs play.
So it takes going back to the first part and the examples and so on, it will take a bit of preparation, a bit of management, keep everybody tight to no more than five minutes to give one example of how their coalition advances that particular policy sustainable development or whatever it is, that is my discussion.
>> TATIANA TROPINA: I liked everything September five minutes. I have now been so generous with Dynamic Coalitions when we had 1.5 hours so this is going to be adjusted to everybody on the call. No, I am not going to give you five minutes. I would rather reserve two, three minutes and let people ask questions.
But, yes, thank you, Mark, so perhaps this is the format, I mean the format we were thinking about was exactly the more overarching questions we just didn't know what questions they were going to be. So I am going to take a note of what you said, and as a preparation, we will not run with hollow questions. We might just distribute the topics and see which Dynamic Coalition, if we have only five, it might be easy, if we have a bit more, it might be a bit hard, signs up for whatever examples and then see if we can group them and how we distribute the time.
And also, what I was also thinking about, those coalitions who didn't submit the paper and who are not going to present examples, maybe they can still be there and intervene with questions and comments. That might be a dynamic discussion. I know that perhaps I'm going a bit too ambitious here.
Thank you, Mark, thank you Siva. I think we can start from here and these are all great suggestions. Any further comments, Siva, I see hand your hand up.
>> SIVASUBRAMANIAN: Sorry.
>> TATIANA TROPINA: I don't see any hands so far, so shall I just give it back to Markus.
>> MARKUS KUMMER: Jennifer is also active in the chat. She has joined us. I don't know whether she would like I think, first of all, let me introduce Jennifer to those who don't know her, and Jennifer, do you have any comments of what you heard so far?
>> JENNIFER CHUNG: Thank you Markus and apologies to the DCs joining late. The other call overran, but I'm very pleased to be able to join you for this part. Since I joined a bit late, I will defer currently to what Tatiana is suggesting. I note that we have also had an internal call between the moderators on how we would like to envisage the session to be run logistically and I'm just taking in more of the views and the comments here so I'm on listening mode currently. Thank you.
>> MARKUS KUMMER: Wai Min, you are one of the external speakers, it would be interesting to know how you would see it from your perspective, in what format would be most comfortable in, but feel free to say silent if you don't want to comment.
>> WAI MIN KWOK: I think it makes sense to have not more is Jovan or myself, that we share the points we would like to say so that we can better coordinate. In terms of ordering the speakers for that matter, over.
>> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you. That's very helpful. Are there any other comments? We don't need to drag on the call. We can give you back a few minutes of your life, especially those who have been on calls all afternoon or all day. I think Tatiana and Jennifer, you have basically enough feedback to prepare the session.
>> TATIANA TROPINA: I didn't raise my hand, I was applauding but I would like if Sorina or you could share the recording with me and Jennifer so Jennifer can listen what we discussed and I can release, and I did take some notes, but it's in no way super comprehensive, so I hope that after this call, we can, Jennifer and I can go through what has been said, come up with some plans, discuss it with you, get back to Dynamic Coalitions, and have some like return of information in not in a long time, because as I said, we do have ample time left.
>> MARKUS KUMMER: There will also be the transcript that will be available.
>> TATIANA TROPINA: That's cool. Thank you so much. So thanks to the captioners then.
>> MARKUS KUMMER: And any other comments last minute suggestions? As I said, you don't want to drag on the call unnecessarily, but I also would like to remind you, then back to Sorena, we have this paper on Dynamic Coalitions, which is work in progress, and there is still a comment period, and I think for those who have not yet commented the second time around it's 14th of November and next week we will have public session to solicit comments on the paper, but I may have all of the deadliness wrong, Sorena, could you fill us in also when the call is, it's on the 19th, I seem to remember.
>> SORINA TELEANU: Thank you, Markus, yes, the paper is still under public comment until the 14th, so far we have nothing, but, yes, I'm guessing people will be until the deadline. Yes there is having open session on 19 November from 3UTC. It's not yet in the schedule on the IGF website, but I am going to collaborate with colleagues on that and then send a note to the DC list.
>> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you Sorena. Mark.
>> MARK CARVELL: It's actually on the paper. We can anticipate a lot of people coming at this session, this main session in Katowice new to the whole idea of Dynamic Coalitions. We don't want the session to be a long exposition about what coalitions are and so on. So the sort of reading materials, if that's the right phrase, if they could be flagged in a very sort of eyecatching way in the session description so that people can actually prime themselves, you know, reads up on what coalitions are, what are the issues coalitions are covering.
The onepager documents working on the DCISSS1 now. Sorry, again, another apology for Sorena for being late on that one. But so that people can quickly get to the main sort of points that are in the paper. The paper is very long. So we can't expect people to read it, you know, five minutes before the session.
But some sort of quick, a couple of few key quotes from the paper on the session description plus links to the onepagers and a link to the main IGF web page where all coalition listed and can be accessed.
It is it is a presentational point. It's important to think about especially as new people are coming to the IGF. There are going to be people trying to work out how to connect for the yearround IGF and coalitions, provide that rear round engagement. And we have got to have clear punchy messages in the session description to really say to those people, yes, you are in the right place for gaining an understanding of coalitions, considering how to contribute to coalitions and how to promote their work through your diverse networks. Thanks.
>> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you, all of these are important points, it's not just presentation. Really it affects the substance, but there are Wout and Siva, would those like to come in.
>> WOUT DE NATRIS: Thank you Markus. I just wanted to say thank you to all that made this possible, because I think we have gone a long way in the past months to make this work possible and to have this session and it's shaping up very nicely and we have two moderators coming on board. I think she will be quite happy with the support of the Dynamic Coalition so that's all I want to share and have in the transcript for the future to note. So, thanks.
>> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you for that. It's always appreciated when people thank the staff for doing extent work, and, yes, my thanks go to Sorena, she really did a great job. Sivas.
>> SIVASUBRAMANIAN: Yes, as Mark was talking about linking the session and providing a link to the IGF website and directing participants to the website, it becomes important to take a look at the integral IGF website.
Some improvements are made, but quite a lot of improvements need to be made. It is very, very difficult to navigate around, and it's not friendly for the common man and not friendly for the expert. And it's not organized well. It's not presented well. I'm sorry to give you such a negative feedback about the website, but something needs to be done. Thank you.
>> MARKUS KUMMER: Thank you for that. That was today's MAG call and Chengetai from the Secretariat actually invited for comments and said don't be shy. If they are negative it's more helpful obviously, but please be as concrete as possible when you hand in your comments so that the Secretariat who is dealing with the website knows exactly what to look at. And how they can improve it.
You don't need to apologize for that. Thank you, most welcome. Are there other comments? Can we close the session? Tatiana, do you have final words?
>> TATIANA TROPINA: Not from me. I just want to thank everybody for your input and looking forward to working on this with you further.
>> MARKUS KUMMER: With that, then unless there is some lastminute hands coming up, I would like to close the session and thank our comoderators, Tatiana and Jenny for having accepted this difficult job and we look forward to having you shepherding us through this exercise. And thank you all for participating. Thank you to Wai Min who agreed to join the session and to all of the Dynamic Coalitions. With that then, I close the session with thanks to everyone, byebye.
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