IGF 2018 - Day 2 - Salle VIII - DC Developing a SIDS Internet Economy Action & Research Agenda

The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the Thirteenth Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in Paris, France, from 12 to 14 November 2018. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record. 



>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  All right.  Welcome, everyone, to the inaugural round table for the Dynamic Coalition on small island developing states.  My name is Tracy Hackshaw.  Joining me in co‑chairing this meeting is my colleague Maureen Hilyard.  I'm from the Internet Society Trinidad & Tobago Chapter and the Multistakeholder Advisory Group.  And Maureen is from the Pacific Islands Chapter of the Internet Society and is also the chair of the at‑large committee for the iCANN and the iCANN environment.  Welcome. 

      This session is our first meeting and as we normally do with small island states meetings, we do it in a round table format.  I encourage everyone who is at the extremes to join us around the round table if you are not yet here because that will be ideal if you're not shy. 

      For those who are joining us for the first time, the idea for this meeting is that we're going to be planning our work going forward into 2019 and beyond as our first meeting.  So the Dynamic Coalition was founded just this year in June 2019 after a series of round tables that we've had at the IGF, I believe, since 2012 or 2013.  So we've combined those round tables into a formal session.  And the plan, which I can't get up on the screen unfortunately because I can't figure out the French on the keyboard.  And I can't get my password up.  The action plan which is on the website, which I'll pull up as well, which I changed separately. 

      We're trying to get a ten‑point action plan going today.  To do that, I'll skip showing any plan and move straight into the items on the agenda that will go into the plan. 

      We have several rapporteurs in the room.  Yes, I can see they've arrived.  Thank you.  The rapporteurs will be capturing the comments that we make and trying to get that information in to our ten‑point action plan going forward. 

      What I would like to do is ask Maureen to add her thoughts and introductory piece.  Can everybody see the screen, or do I need to make it a little bit larger?  A little bit larger?  All right.  That's good without getting ridiculous. 

      Maybe, Maureen, you can join in. 

>> MAUREEN HILYARD:  Welcome, everybody.  I'm not sure is it ‑‑

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  Don't be too close.  It's very loud. 

>> MAUREEN HILYARD:  Okay.  Sorry.  I've lost my voice.  I just wanted to ‑‑ I think it would be really good if we went around and introduced each other because we've got people here that I haven't seen before.  It would be nice to find out who is here and who is really supporting the work that we're wanting to do in this particular forum. 

      We're going to be looking at a range of issues.  I must admit, in my preparation I was looking at it from the Pacific viewpoint in a lot of these issues.  If we could start from the back.  If you wouldn't mind introducing yourselves and tell us where you come from, so we can get an idea of where ‑‑

>> AUDIENCE:  Hi, everyone.  My name is Morgan Frost from the Center for International Private Enterprise.  We focus on the intersection of democracy and the local private sector.  We have different programs on the digital economies so I was interested in learning more about this coalition. 

>> AUDIENCE:  I'm (?) from Ghana, a youth IGF fellow. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello, everyone.  Good morning my name is Lilly from Ghana.  I work with the Ghana Access Limited.  I am the team lead for engagement at the foundation.  I'm with the Internet Society, Youth IGF fellow.  At this meeting I am rapporteur.  Thank you. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Hi, everyone.  My name is (?) I'm from Ghana and I'm also a Youth IGF.  Thank you. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello, everyone.  I'm Enoch from Nigeria.  I'm Youth IGF fellow. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Good afternoon.  This is Theresa from the Foundation.  We provide development programs and we have a soft spot for small island developing states.  By the way we're also reporting from all sessions at the IGF including this one.  If you missed something, just go on our website and you will find it.  Thank you. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello, everyone.  My name is Maria, I'm from Uganda.  I work with a session enterprise that does capacity building.  I am a Youth IGF fellow and I'm here rapporteuring as well just like Lilly.  Thank you. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Good morning, everyone.  I'm (?) from Zimbabwe for the Internet Societies Chapter.  I also run a project called Green Spaces for Internet access for those spaces. 

>> AUDIENCE:  I'm the IT manager with Clear Sky Connections.  We're a project in Manitoba to bring Internet to all 63 communities in Manitoba. 

>> AUDIENCE:  I'm Ethan.  I'm Youth IGF fellow like quite a few people in here, and I'm rapporteuring this meeting. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Good afternoon, I'm Nicole.  I'm with Way Forward focused on women's empowerment focused on doing work on tech in the Caribbean.

>> AUDIENCE:  Good afternoon, everyone.  My name is Rhea Yaw Ching.  I also support Internet capacity to the commission I'm on Caribbean Commission for Communications Resilience.  I'm rapporteuring today as well and supporting the DC

>> AUDIENCE:  (Off Microphone).

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello.  My name is Jack.  I'm a grad student at Carleton University in Canada.  I was mostly interested in the coalition.  So I thought I'd come to observe today. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello, everyone.  My name is Carlton Samuels I'm from West Indies and Jamaica.  I've been around Internet Governance issues for about ten years. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello, my name is Daniel.  I'm a Youth IGF fellow, 2018.  Thank you. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello, everyone.  My name is Albert.  I'm from Columbia and I'm part of the center for Internet Society and the university. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Hi name is Dennis.  I'm the founder of the iron dock project which is an NGO that works in small island states with interchangeable cultural heritage through protection ICTs. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello, everyone.  I'm Yaw from China.  I'm from the Ministry of foreign affairs.  I'm from the office for cyber affairs.  I'm focused on cybersecurity and Internet Governance, and I'm interested in the cooperation between China and the island states.  So I'm here. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Hello, I'm Ellen Strickland, policy director for Internet New Zealand.  I'm here because I'm a former board member and a researcher at Queensland University and advisor on ICT policy. 

>> AUDIENCE:  I'm Carson.  I'm part of the IGF 2019. 

>> AUDIENCE:  I'm from India and part of the Youth IGF fellow.  

>> AUDIENCE:  I'm from Papua New Guinea, Pacific Islands.  I'm here for ISOC and member of the Pacific Islands Internet Society. 

>> AUDIENCE:  My name is George.  I'm representing the Trinidad & Tobago multistakeholder advisory group. 

>> AUDIENCE:  Hi, my name is Wesley.  I'm a journalist from Trinidad & Tobago.  I'm with the Association of Caribbean Media Workers.  I'm with IGF for freedom of expression exchange.  I have a little background in this subject because for zero plus 10 I was part of the group that put together the education information plan. 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  All right.  Thank you very much.  So it's 12:34.  So we are four minutes because we have a tight schedule behind. 

      Item 2 on the agenda we want to touch on and discuss, just to reiterate this is a round table.  There are no panelists.  This is not a talking heads session.  We're going to be asking you to contribute directly in.  If I don't hear any voices, I will ask you to speak. 

      So topic one, affordability and accessibility Internet usage, exploration of existing Internet infrastructure and developments within SIDS.  What we're trying to do is assess whether or not any of the issues that relate to affordability and accessibility of Internet usage are indeed applicable to small island developing states.  And if so, what are the actions that need to be taken by a group like ourselves to improve the challenges that small island developing states face? 

     As you see on the screen, we have created a map of some of the things that we believe would be of interest.  Affordability, broadband, Internet price control measures.  And to accessibility, the digital divide, the access through intergovernmental agencies and related services.  The role of community Internet resources and education and social development.  And under infrastructure development, interislands connectivity and IXPs and status of DNSSEC deployment.  Of course that's not an exhaustive list.  We have approximately ten minutes for this discussion. 

      So I'll open the floor.  I know it's a broad topic to see if there are points or observations that anyone would like to make.  If not, I will call upon my colleagues in the room who I know will want to contribute.  So the floor is open.  When I say open, I really mean open. 

>> CARLTON SAMUELS:  Let me jump in here.  My ‑‑ we tend to have the same problems.  We have problems of accessibility.  And accessibility there are several factors that are kind of imposed on this issue.  There's accessibility because of costs.  It's affordability.  It's not affordable.  We have some issues with literacy.  And we have some issues pertaining to infrastructure and regulation.  Part of the problem we have in our states is creating a cohesive framework of action that allows you to deal with all of them because these issues are interconnected. 

      And one of the areas I think we have to do is look at deliberately creating a framework of action so that we can beat this issue. 

      The first one in my view we should promote community networks as a way to connect those at the edge and those underrepresented.  And if you're going to produce community networks, you have to have a regulatory framework that allows you to deploy infrastructure. 

      By that I mean you have to have ‑‑ I'm thinking Wi‑Fi in this case, bandwidth and spectrum availability.  And it could mean that you have to influence the regulatory framework for spectrum management.  We see TV‑wide spaces and a digital dividend when you go to digital broadcasting as providing opportunities for improvement of the bandwidth and the spectrum for bandwidth. 

      Then you have to have anchor institutions.  We've tried the community access point routes.  Most of you would know that community access point has a really problem of sustainability.  Maybe what we have to do is look for different anchors.  Because the community access points were meant to anchor the development of the community networks.  I'm thinking we should look for new institutions.  In my own view the library system is probably one of the best positioned to become anchor points for community access points.  And therefore, building community networks around that. 

      The library, at least in our region, they're developing their own digital assets.  They're developing databases of digital assets because they are very much involved in information in literacy training with what can be utilized. 

      What we're talking about is that even if you do not have day‑to‑day Internet access, because you're still going to have problems to the Internet.  That's where the price and the costs comes in.  You should at least aim for developing a community intranet because that will have value in itself. 

      If you look at what's happening, if you look at places around the Caribbean and Jamaica, we had a white space project that developed in the Rio Grand Valley that connected some schools and health centers together.  I know in Belize, they had projects that are connecting their public health systems, their health aids, in a network where they can produce data and information. 

      The point I'm making here is there are enough applications available to sustain a community intranet even if we only have episodic connections to Internet because of the costs of the back hall to the Internet. 

      But as you see, it is a whole set of things that need to work together.  It requires collaboration.  So my own view is that we have all the pieces.  We know all the pieces that can work and can be sustainable.  What we have to do is like in this coalition develop coalitions of practice and develop a collaborative framework to allow us to put the pieces together.  So that's my contribution.  Thank you. 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  All right.  Thank you.  That was Carlton Samuels from Trinidad & Tobago.  I believe there are more participants on who are listening.  Feel free to make your observations.  We have an online moderator.  We would have you intervene accordingly. 

      Moving on ‑‑ we have ‑‑ just about five minutes left on this topic, unfortunately.  Are there any other interventions from the audience?  All right.  You caught my eye first. 

>> RHEA YAW CHING:  Okay.  So I do want to spin off something that Carlton talked about.  But before I go there, just very quickly, the Caribbean has made some significant progress as it relates to the affordability index for those who have access.  So we will qualify it that way. 

We do have some outliers that do need a lot of attention still.  I will still name Jamaica as one of them.  We have significant opportunities in Belize, Guiana, and so on.  If you look at where we fall in the broadband 5% of GNI and so on.  The vast majority of the Caribbean falls well within that range. 

      That being said, the price on the affordability factor within the context of accessibility cannot be denied.  Carlton is extremely right in describing that. 

      I want to spin off on access and connectivity as well.  Both the Pacific and the Caribbean and if 2017 taught us anything, it taught us the existing infrastructure and models are ‑‑ need to be looked at immediately in our bundle of solutions as we move forward. 

      It's not simply an issue of talking about access from a single solution aspect but making sure we have diversity in our opportunities and options.  As Carlton rightly put it, a set of regulatory frameworks that are flexible enough to be able to accommodate that. 

      So as I sat on the Commission for Communications Resilience, I was charged with reviewing some of the new and emerging technologies that came to the fore.  Everyone was coming to us.  We have one web, we had sky and space global.  We had TV white space.  We have a number of suppliers and emerging technologies, all of which have seen significant reductions in price and global market strategies that can actually make this affordable to us.  Hap technologies as well, satellites, all of it. 

      To his point, the regulatory frameworks that surround these new technologies are not in place yet.  And so nine months later, ten months later and we have yet to see significant deployments or even pilot tests in any of these that can both help us in emergency access opportunity but also reach last mile, also reach rural access and community networks opportunity to fulfill our accessibility aspirations.  And that's what I've got. 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  Thank you.  Rhea Yaw Ching.  I recognize from the media association.  But I would like to put you on a bit of a spot given our time is running out.  Perhaps when you make a contribution, if you could end with one or two action points that we could add to the action plan that we want to go forward for the benefit of the session. 

>>  Hopefully I'll be able to add a few lines.  What we just said strikes a familiar cord following the events in the Caribbean of 2017.  My organization did a review of media performance during the emergencies in Dominica and some of the other islands.  The emergency response mechanisms and communication mechanisms were nonexistent practically, and it interferes with the mainstream communication, media in particular.  Not only media but others.  In Trinidad & Tobago, we had a big flooding episode.  That came to the fore as well. 

      So that said.  That's fully endorsed.  In terms of the ‑‑ there's a tendency to look very heavily at the infrastructure issues.  And those things are all requirements.  I know a little bit about a situation in the Pacific, and there are serious deficits in terms of the hardware and regulatory framework to govern. 

      But we need to look at the content issues.  When a colleague mentioned in passing the literacy issue, I think above and beyond old‑fashioned classical literacy and illiteracy which remain problems in a lot of our territories.  Digital needs to be looked at in terms of assisting people to make sense of what's flowing through the conduits that we're speaking about being established. 

      So I would say you should perhaps add ‑‑ it's there.  I know implicitly, but perhaps it needs to be explicit mention on the content side in terms of raising awareness of and abilities within our communities to interpret the huge mass, the increase in flows through these conduits, the information conduits we are creating. 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  Thank you very much.  And a strict time manager here.  We are three minutes over where we're supposed to be now.  So I will move on, with your permission, to item 3. 

      Item 3, I'll ask Maureen to lead us through this.  Maureen, can you see it? 

>> MAUREEN HILYARD:  I can see it.  Actually I just want to ‑‑ I just wanted to comment on the community Internet.  I'm sure my Pacific colleagues will also would agree with me, we also have an Internet courtesy of the Internet Society and that there is across the Pacific, there's actually a mailing list.  We have ‑‑ all our members have had the opportunity to communicate with each other.  I think that's been an amazing mechanism for us, and it could be possible through your Internet Society as well.  It's an amazing mechanism for actually putting the finger on the pulse of what is actually important within the community. 

      There are issues ‑‑ all the issues that have been mentioned already, like, of course, are common.  The thing is the digital assets and things like that.  That's a given. 

      Another thing that often comes up within the Pacific meetings and that is cybersecurity.  It's just a major issue.  But when it comes to ‑‑ like I mean the practicalities, I noticed, for example, there are only three of 22 territories have a cert, and we only have 22% have raised (?) so they realize what the issues are, but it's convincing governments sometimes.  The high‑level sort of like contribution that we could perhaps work together in our ‑‑ in this coalition to develop some kind of strategy that we can present to governments that are actually going to make them more aware of the importance of it, especially in the emergency side of things. 

      I mean, that's just my point of view.  But I'd be willing to listen to others, especially from the Pacific.  (Laughing) I actually have a couple here to support me today. 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  Moving on to item 3, Maureen.  If you could go to item 3. 

>> MAUREEN HILYARD:  People, do you have comments? 

      Social development mainly.  I feel in the woman and girls in ICT. 

>> AUDIENCE:  We have a great (Off Microphone) hi, thanks for that.  The one pager I don't see any reference specifically to the gender divide issues.  I think that's something we need to be very cognizant of.  Even though my work is focused looking at the Caribbean, we know the situation in most of the developing countries and of course across the small island developing states.  I think it's something that we can't overlook notwithstanding the fact, for instance, some presentation or discussion with colleagues from Facebook, for instance, that Jamaica actually has more women than men who are on Facebook.  But it doesn't mean that ‑‑ that's just an overall figure, but it doesn't mean that the level of digital literacy and digital skills are actually there. 

      Just in terms of maybe looking at possible solutions, what can we do?  One of the first things we're seeing within our group is that we want to try and work with others within the ITU equal skills coalition to identify exactly what is our situation with regards to ‑‑ what is the baseline?  I think it's something we could look at doing in the other regions within the SIDS as well.  So that we can have clear information.  Especially when it comes to resilience, we know, of course, that women are the ones that are maybe left at home and that type of thing with regards to trying to respond in event of a disaster event.  They naturally have hurricanes and that kind of thing in our different regions.  That's a key that we want linked in there. 

      Not I think, I would like to recommend that we insert some language in there.  I think some of the colleagues had submitted some information.  I can work with you guys to make sure we have that inserted. 

>> MAUREEN HILYARD:  I know we are pulling together that one pager, and it was mainly based on what we were ‑‑ had been for like in the Pacific was to do with the IPR IGF and the issues that came out of it.  I think the things that were on top that I certainly do agree with you and especially when we're looking at emergency services and making sure that our elderly, women and children, those vulnerable groups and we should be doing it as a collective.  We share the same problems. 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  So the item that we're dealing with in item three.  We're looking for action items.  I know we're discussing it.  But can we get the discussion to getting some points that we would like to proceed with.  As you know, the list is an extremely long list unfortunately, but we do have the gender issue there.  We bring up the resilience issue as well.  We have a series of cybersecurity, regulatory, content development, everything down to blockchain.  It's a whole list of potential of actions that we could take.  I know it's a lot to digest in a short time. 

      But I would like to ask if we could zero on some action items when we contribute going forward.  Thanks. 

>> CARLTON SAMUELS:  Can I talk a little bit about local content development?  This is a topic that is near and dear to all of us from the Caribbean.  We've been at it for quite awhile. 

      We have some issues.  George is here.  George can say something about that.  We've always had a reputation of having gifted programmers.  We have them.  The problem is that we're losing the brain drain situation.  We lose them very rapidly.  George and I go way back in this business.  We can tell you stories about people we employ and train.  As soon as we employ and train them, they move on us.  You're not going to combat that because the opportunities and the enticements from up north are hard to overcome, especially when you're youngsters and have growing families and so on. 

      It can't be a way for you to stop that.  That's not going to be useful.  So what we have to do as a developer, we have to develop more of them.  We just have to produce more of them. 

      And the way we're going about that is in fix and starts.  I'm a chairman of a secondary school board.  We've seen for the last three academic years, there are more girls that are taking IT and computer science, STEM.  STEM, thank you, Rhea.  There are more girls in STEM.  The problem is that they need to be nurtured probably a lot more than the boys.  And what we need is more mentors for them.  That's what we need, more than anything else. 

      It doesn't mean that you have to know how to write a program or you have to know how to do a chemistry experiment.  What it means, though, is that you're available to them to bounce ideas off and talk.  This is where collaboration comes in, because you might not know the answer, but you might know somebody who knows the answer. 

So we have to have a chain of collaborations to develop more of them.  That is going to be the solution.  We have to just develop more of them.  And they are there and willing.  And from the trends we're seeing at a secondary level they seem to be enthusiastic about participating.  So I'm making the appeal for more mentors.  We have to get out of the idea that a mentor has to have a certain profile.  That's one profile.  That's not true anymore. 

      George, I'm sure you have some things you can add to this. 

>> George:  Carlton, you're right.  We've discussed this issue time and time again.  I think education in our regions is what is most needed.  I want to see education from two reasons.  We can't stop the brain drain.  All we can do is take advantage of the diaspora coming back or giving back to our countries. 

The second thing on education is the ability to figure out or ‑‑ Wesley was talking about emergency alerts and maybe Rhea also, but how do we educate our populations to discern what is fake and what is not fake? 

      Over the last couple of emergencies we've had in the Caribbean, especially, we've seen lots of fake news of pictures that didn't even come from our region saying they were happening in our region.  We have to go to this education process where we educate users of our technology systems, how to discern what is real and what is not. 

>> MAUREEN HILYARD:  If I can just throw something in here at the moment.  At the moment I'm developing a ICT strategy in the Cook Islands which is really cool. 

      Being a small island, we have a lot of association with (?) the Indian government is actually contributing to a program to develop an initiative within the Cook Islands where they work with the graduates.  We have several graduates for the University of South Pacific in information systems.  We would like to work with those graduates and to assess what the needs are in government sectors, and then train ‑‑ find out what the needs are and then train them in what the courses of need. 

      So that what happens is that we develop incubator program where the students actually develop solutions for community needs.  And the training actually fills the skills that they need to do those, to supply those needs. 

      And I think this is probably ‑‑ it's an innovation that is going with what you're saying is that they get trained, and they produce the solutions on the island.  And we're actually getting our locals to do the ‑‑ to create the solutions. 

      In the past it's been outsourced or bringing people in.  We know our kids can do that themselves.  So it's customized training. 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  Thank you, Maureen.  We have a remote intervention.  Let's give that remote intervention some attention.  Please go ahead.  Who's speaking? 

>> JACQUELINE MORRIS:  Jacqueline Morris, Trinidad & Tobago, Multistakeholder Advisory Group.  I wanted to follow up on Carlton's ‑‑ George's point actually about using the diaspora and note that Jamaica has a very, very interesting project that they have about the use of the diaspora to interact with students and people and particular groups of items that are needed in Jamaica, for example. 

      I was talking to Peter Harrison the other day.  They have an ICT diaspora team, and they use people in the diaspora to have fellowships and so forth for Jamaicans in their companies in the U.S. and UK and so forth.  That might be something that we could look at for all various countries to utilize diaspora to help us with the education and also be able to say, hey, you can switch back and forth.  But you can still give back and use your skills to do it and help in the Caribbean and the Pacific.  Thank you. 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  Thank you.  I think that was Jacqueline Morris.  Yes, go ahead, Nicole. 

>> Nicole:  Thanks.  Two things.  One you were mentioning before in terms of the initiative with India, maybe that's something that we could expand wider because we have a lot of engagement with India within the Caribbean region as well and most across Africa.  That's one thought.  The other thing is that I was reaching out to a colleague who is with ‑‑ I don't know if you're heard of Hacker Hostel which is an initiative in the Caribbean and Jamaica, I think.  They work in a number of different places.  That question of retaining the talent so we don't have the brain drain. 

I think when we look in terms of future work that the fact that we have that developing or well‑developed Internet connectivity relatively, that it opens the opportunity for staying in the country where you are and working in a different way. 

      So one of the things that we're doing with the initiative I live which is girls in ICT in the Caribbean hackathon is in terms of engaging them in the upper level of high school and in the university.  But the idea being to get into that pipeline also of those that may be, whether we call them, they work for themselves or that kind of thing.  It may be something that we could see with ‑‑ I don't know if the IGF group or with ISOC, because I'm outside of the Internet group itself.  I'm more on the development side ‑‑ to develop a cadre or pool that is known of people that can be pulled on as part of resource for different projects. 

Because even in the case of what Hacker Hostel has been doing, they've done projects in Trinidad, for instance, that they're doing work for clients in other parts of the world.  Also in Jamaica and that kind of thing.  There are many models that we can put on, for instance, based out of Nairobi which is virtual, not data entry but virtual well‑developed tech skills that can be provided.  I think that's one area that we definitely need to look at.  That has two aspects to it, both the gender lens aspect as well as, of course, making sure you're going across other, both male and female. 

      The other thing you were mentioning, Carlton, I would love to follow up with you where we can make sure to ensure that those girls that are coming out of the programs, whether it's at University of West Indies or other universities, that kind of thing, we can make them available on an ongoing basis as virtual mentors.  We can do this across regions too.  Develop a program that is on an ongoing basis.  You have a million mentors.  There are a million mentorship programs. 

Google tech is interested in doing a lot of these kinds of things.  Let's get together and pull some specific actions as you're asking for, Tracy, that we can actually make this a reality. 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  Item 4.  We need to identify the actions and pull together for the ‑‑ remember, this is a Dynamic Coalition.  We have to ensure that the outcomes for this session are specific and we can document them.  So we would like to ensure that now we just drive ‑‑ we have 10 minutes left.  Drive right down the action items.  Let's move.  Let's go. 

>> RHEA YAW CHING:  Let me add specifically in the area of gender and ICT, what isn't measured isn't managed.  So we need to begin from the beginning starting to benchmark ourselves, where we are in this situation.  Mentoring is one aspect.  That can be measured as well, but we need to also insert a gender mechanism into all of our ICT policies.  This is a policy forum.  We need to be able to include it in our development plans.  Any program that we are going out with when it comes to diversity, we must have as a ‑‑ Nicole pointed out, the gender lens.  And that will help us in moving forward in understanding the scope and nature of the problem. 

      Number two on the issue of local content, a very interesting project.  As I was working with Facebook on trying to help them with Caribbean language literally, to improve their community management process within the Caribbean.  I came upon this situation where they can't really help us as much as they would like to.  The whole issue of fake news and all of that.  As I spun the local content a different way, I realized that we can actually combine these platform views and take on a local content view in a slightly different way. 

      I would like to have an outreach to Facebook and Google and so on to get our local content, dialect, language, euphemisms and so on built into their algorithms to be able to support how they support us in the region, and then how our content gets bubbled up to get more sight across.  So it takes on a push/pull versus a pull/push view and therefore more holistic in the local content aspect. 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  We're looking for the action.  Thank you, Rhea.  We have at least two from Rhea there.  Go to Nicole and then to Carlton. 

>> Nicole:  I don't want to hog the show, but as per specific actions, excellent that you just mentioned, Rhea, what isn't measured isn't managed.  One of the initiatives that we are pushing forward with now is to develop some work with you know ECLAC and others to do exactly that, to see what is the status of the digital literacy skills within the Caribbean.  To the extent that we can expand that to include the Pacific, that's something I think we should really look at doing.  You know ECLAC is not in the Pacific.  It's a matter of who the partner is.  So that's one.  Just to indicate that. 

      Specific action, Tracy, is to indicate in this going forward that we would like to have DC SIDS as a partner in that, both because there's a lot of expertise that is within the Caribbean that we would like to draw on and also to know in terms of like who others may have as partners, whether it's Facebook, Google, that type of thing. 

I'm doing a follow‑up with GMSA so we don't reinvent the wheel.  The specific action is yes, and we would like to also have your endorsement for the research that's going to be done on the agenda. 

>> CARLTON SAMUELS:  A plug for the open data initiative.  There's ‑‑ we have an open data initiative going across the Caribbean for several years now.  They're in the process of kind of accounting for all of the open data sets that are available.  I know you know Patrick.  He has several data sets available on his platform in Trinidad.  We have some at the University of West Indies through the open data institute and my colleague, Maurice McNaughton who is involved there. 

      One of the things they've been doing is accounting all the open data sets and accumulating.  They're looking for applications that are on top of the open data to valorize the data as well as ferment content development around that data.  That is something that we can pull into. 

      What has happened is a couple of the governments in the region have embraced the open data initiative concept.  They're still working on the frameworks on how to make the data open and how to manage it and so on.  But I think if we work with these people that are down the road on this open data initiative, it is a part of getting the content development going in the region.  And it is something ‑‑ it's a low‑hanging fruit, as it were, that we can add some value to.  Thank you. 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  Thank you.  I'm on time.  What I would like to do perhaps is ask one of the rapporteurs to sort of summarize the last points quickly.  We'll see if there's anything missing that you want to add therefore, and we'll wrap the meeting up. 

Who would like to volunteer from the rapporteur team to summarize the last few points that were raised to make sure that we have it documented?  I'm seeing Ethan Sweet would like to volunteer. 

>> ETHAN SWEET:  A last few points here.  We've had from you right now the open data initiative how this is already how we should take hold of it and use it.  We've heard from ‑‑ I'm sorry I forgot your name. 

>> AUDIENCE:  (Off Microphone).

>>  ETHAN SWEET:  We've heard from across the room what isn't measured isn't managed.  So we need to keep our tabs on these things.  Say, for example, you pointed out a U.N. agency, I believe, that is doing this. 

>> AUDIENCE:  (Off Microphone).

>> ETHAN SWEET:   It's for Pacific and DC should be expanding on that a bit more.  We had a Hacker Hostel that was the system to attempt to fight brain drain from the Caribbean to the north is pretty severe and isn't just going to stop.  One thing she said is to incubate in the country and then they won't leave.  That's always nice. 

You want me to keep going?  How far should I scroll up.  I have a big document here with 800 words. 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  You can pause there.  Is there anything missing in actions we need to take?  Maureen, yes, thank you. 

>> MAUREEN HILYARD:  I wanted to say when we're putting together these sorts of ideas that have come through, as long as it's in some kind of framework, we can see how things are going to be connecting to each other.  Because they are related. 

      Also, I think we can very much say whatever is being developed for the Caribbean would definitely be helpful for the Pacific.  You know, there is another group of small island states who haven't been participating with us as much as.  We've got to reach out to them as well. 

      I think the items that are being raised already and also, for example, it's interesting, the first thing you mentioned was the affordability thing.  And you said there have been developments already.  I would be very interested in hearing about those, because that's a real big issue in the Pacific.  We haven't been able to deal with it.  So if you've got some ideas that would help us, it would be great as well. 

      But I think there should be some sort of structure, that's all. 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  Yes, definitely.  Are you going to go ahead then? 

>> AUDIENCE:  (Off Microphone).

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  Okay.  All right.  In the last few minutes I would like to give one more call for any action items that we want ‑‑ remember, just repeating, this is a Dynamic Coalition.  This is not a workshop.  We're trying to get a plan together to present to the UN.  I don't know what's available but we're going to get this plan approved and take it forward in the next year or two.  With this plan we want to make sure everything we want to get done is there.  Let's make sure that happens as we're talking it through.  We have two minutes left.  If that's the case, I'm seeing some ‑‑ now that I said, I'm seeing some points coming up. 

>>  I just want to take a topic that wasn't actually talked about and throw in an action item.  The law enforcement challenges in combatting cybercrime, some of my work with Facebook, I want to make an appeal through this DC that we can actually approach many of these platforms to help in supporting some of the rogue elements, if you will.  But it just means more of a structured partnership with various groups within these organizations.  And in doing that, we have closer eyes on our own.  Because, again, they have more data on us than we have on ourselves.  We need to work with them to mine it.  And that breaks down the barrier between ourselves and the law enforcement agencies who of themselves don't have those various types of networks that we do. 

      So we bring this ISOC of partnership in cybercrime that brings it closer to more attraction. 

>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  Do you have anything to wrap up, Maureen?  Okay.  So with that, I'll give ‑‑ I gave you one hour unfortunately this year.  I would like to wrap up this session that was very tight.  I think we got some work done.  This particular discussion online in the mailing list and hopefully nothing is established.  Thank you for joining us in this very rapid DC SIDS.  And thank all the rapporteurs that did a fantastic job, I'm sure.  To Ethan for volunteering to kind of co‑lead what the points were. 

      I would like to make one round officially try to validate the action plan.  Assuming we have ‑‑ just by acclimation.  I'm assuming, therefore, there's no dissent or no disagreement for this plan, and if there is, speak now.  Otherwise, I would think we would want to give a round of applause to close the meeting, our first meeting for getting an action plan going.  Let's go. 


>> TRACY HACKSHAW:  Thank you very much and meeting is adjourned.  Thank you.