IGF 2018 - Day 3 - Salle III - OF22 Envisaging the pillars of discussions for G20 in 2019

The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the Thirteenth Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in Paris, France, from 12 to 14 November 2018. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record. 



     >> MODERATOR: Thank you for coming and joining us.  I would like to start the open forum, organized by japanese and French government, jointly.  I am ‑‑ My name is Yoichi Iida, I am deputy director general for the G7 and G20 relations from the Minister of Internal Affairs and Communications with the Japanese government.  I really appreciate your participation in the discussion. 

Some of you ‑‑ I guess some of you saw the title of this session as the "Envisaging the Pillars of the G20," digital economies discussion for next year, under the Japanese presidency.  That was the original thought.  But then we discussed with French colleagues that we want to talk about the synergy between G7 and G20 frameworks.  We will be the next presidency of G20 framework, but France is the next presidency for G7 framework. 

So we wanted to ‑‑ I wanted to discuss how to strengthen the synergy between two different frameworks.  After that, after we started the discussion, I received a proposal ‑‑ very good proposal from French colleagues that we want to discuss how to strengthen multistakeholder process in the frameworks of G7 and G20.  It is really suitable and very appropriate to discuss especially in the ‑‑ on the occasion of the IGF

So I was happy to change the title of the session.  So please be aware that the discussion from now on will be a discussion on how to strengthen or how to make the best use of multistakeholder approach, in the governmental forum such as G7 and G20. 

In the beginning, let me introduce some information about the plan of the G20 next year and our presidency.  Actually, we have just started the preparation.  We are still under the presidency of Argentina this year.  And we are now considering how to succeed the achievements made by the Argentina presidency.

We understand, even in the previous years, in G20 framework, the previous presidencies paid a lot of attention to multistakeholder participation.  And we want to strengthen the ‑‑ that intention under our presidency, too.  Now we are planning to have the ministerial ‑‑ I'm sorry ‑‑  digital related to ministerial as trade and digital economy ministers' meeting.  That is why we believe trade and digital economy are two pillars for the growth of global economy.  We want to create some synergy to hold two different ministerials together jointly.  This ministerial will be held on 8 and 9 of June, next year. 

So we will have only half a year or so.  And we need to rush the preparation.  So we will have intensive discussion with different stakeholders, and we would ask for your strong support. 

We adjust our agenda and have only skeleton of the agenda at the moment at hand, but I am quite certain that we will have one overarching topic as how to contribute to the inclusive and sustainable development of the globalization of the society through the digitalization of society.  That would be the overarching theme over our G20 discussion.  And to realize that ultimate goal, we will discuss different elements under this overarching topic.  The elements will include accessibility or digital divide in different area.  And including digital divide in infrastructure.  And also one of the main pillars is artificial intelligence, which is the very fundamental foundation for the digital economy in the near future. 

And we, if we discuss ‑‑ if we discuss artificial intelligence,  I believe we need to discuss free probing information to support the sound development of artificial intelligence and we also need to discuss cybersecurity.  Those elements will be the main pillars of our discussion next year.  And all through the discussions over all the elements, I believe, multistakeholder approach will be very important. 

So today, I would like to ask the speakers from the previous presidencies and also from the engagement groups to discuss how they made effort to utilize multistakeholders' powers in their preparation and how they found the difficulty in the previous years.

Then, I would like to make the best use of those findings and learnings in our preparation next year.  Thank you very much.  Let me invite French colleague for the next presidency of the G7, the ambassador.  Please make some comment. 

     >> Yes.  Good morning.  Sorry.  I'm Arvie Verde (sp).  I'm the new ‑‑ I will be, tomorrow, the new ambassador for digital ‑‑ for digital for France.  I am happy to be with you today.  I won't share the complete agenda.  I will start tomorrow.  For us, for France, for you, for everyone the data revolution with opportunities and the cyber threats is very important topic and very important part of G7.  As you heard, President Macron Monday said for us it is important to face the new challenges in this multistakeholder process.  We will try to work with our companions and happen to see we have a strong partnership with Japan and between G7 and G20.  Sorry for my English.  I will improve my English. 

And I'm sure that the French will ask us to have some concrete results because we believe ‑‑ we strongly believe in the multistakeholder way, but it is common for the humanity, but we need to prove that this process works.  If we're straight and we have issues to face, and new real problems.  But it is about the cyber security, about the digital divide.  So we will try to build a way to help concrete reasons, and that is the main mission, that is the first thing they told me when they asked me to be ambassador.  That is my opening remarks.  I will start tomorrow.  Today, I'm here to hear and to learn.  Thank you.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you, Mr. Ambassador.  It is great honor for us to have him as his first job as a cyber ambassador. 

Let me introduce the speakers from the previous presidencies of the G7 and G20.  From myself, on the right side at the end, Mr. Samuel ‑‑ how to pronounce, I'm sorry.

     >> SAMUEL WILLIS:  Samuel Willis. 

     >> MODERATOR: Okay.  From the Canadian Ministry of Industry and Economic Development.  And Canada the presidency of G7 this year.  On the left side of Samuel, Dr. Daniela Broenstrup from the German Ministry of Economic Affairs and Energy.  Germany was the presidency of G20 last year.  And on my right side, Madam Lita Forcio from the Italian Ministry of Economic Development.  And next to ambassador, we have also Dr. Validia Escuilla, from Argentina Ministry of Modernization.  Argentina is the presidency of the G20 this year. 

So let me start to with, maybe, Daniela to make comments on how you tried to make use of multistakeholder approach in your preparation of G20 when you were in the presidency.  And also, in which part did you find the most difficulties?

    >> DANIELA BROENSTRUP: Thank you very much to the French and Japanese governments for organizing this forum.  Let me say it is a very good idea to interlink better with the IGF and the G formats.  Thank you very much, that is a good idea to do that because indeed, both formats are multistakeholder.  The G formats are governmental forums, nevertheless, we tried in our G20 presidency last year, to work closely together with the multistakeholder groups.  So in the G format is established, there are different multistakeholder groups, as for example, business 20, so B20, the women 20, the W20,the youth 20, the science 20.  We worked closely together from the very beginning of the preparation process with those groups.  And that net, as you maybe know, on high‑level meetings.  The chancellor herself was very much involved in the processes, and not on high level, with the groups to let them influence the G20 discussions. 

We found it very fruitful because we got input, it is for our roadmap, you noticed the first time the G20 digital ministers meeting, and what came out of the process was the G20 roadmap on digital issues.  A lot of the issues addressed there came out of the multistakeholder process. 

Let me highlight two issues because you will follow up on them and the Argentinian president did after us.  And we were honored and grateful for that.  One thing is the interconnectivity and connecting all people by 2025.  Enhancing infrastructure is an important point, I think.  And another is bridging the digital divide, the gender divide, not only that, but the divide of a lot of groups. 

Two points just to raise.  You asked for difficulties.  Yes, indeed for us, there was one difficulty and that was how to sequence the things.  Because you know, all the multistakeholder groups they also work together and have their negotiations of papers, and in a way, they work parallel with the G20 or G7 process.  Even though from the beginning we tried to work together with them, had a lot of meetings with them, it was sometimes difficult to get the two processes together.  One example was B20.  B20 came up with the issue of artificial intelligence, in our view, late in the process and we couldn't integrate in the G20 process at that point in time.  What we did is have another task force meeting.  So working level after the ministerial, then we invited the B20 to give the input they worked out into the task force and hand over to the Argentinian presidency after us.  Thank you.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you, Daniela.  I still remember, you had an intensive week planned with the industry.  In the middle of March.  One month before the ministerial, and it was ‑‑ it was very impressive to see, you know you were inviting not only the business groups but also some groups from consumer people.

    >> DANIELA BROENSTRUP: If I may add ‑‑ thank you for remind me.  We had several multistakeholder conferences ‑‑ in fact several multistakeholder conferences before our ministerial.  So before the ministerial, we had one multistakeholder conference, where the ministerial took place.  Before that, there was a consumer summit, also.  There were different formats of the multistakeholder group before our ministerial, before the summit.  That influenced of course the process.  And in fact, we pulled upon your experience as the G7 presidency.  You have that multistakeholder format before the ministerial and we found it fruitful, and that is why we did that as well.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you for your comment.  As Daniela said, Japanese government had G7 ministerial in 2016.  And we ‑‑ yeah, we maybe experimentally did multistakeholder meeting, one day before the ministerial.  It was good to see different stakeholders gathered and discussed the same topic as minister discussed.  But the meeting on the previous day didn't produce a lot.  Because, you know, it was too late to make a substantial input.  Also, we invited people from business side, but we didn't think about the consumer side or other groups. 

So it is always, you know ‑‑ they are always in your findings for the government, you know, when we try to challenge new things.  So thank you very much, Daniela.  So let me invite, maybe Samuel?

    >> SAMUEL WILLIS: Of course, thank you, Yoichi Iida.  It is important to support you in your G20 presidency and also to work with France to make sure the transition happens well from the Japan G7 presidency to the France G7 presidency.  Along this year ‑‑ I flag we have to organize a multistakeholder event in Montreal in a few weeks.  From the broad picture, we consulted at the G7, all of the group that you just mentioned.  B7, the chamber of commerce, 2018, on the labor of Congress.  For the youth, the work economy forum, global shapers.  On science, we consulted the Royal Society of Canada. 

And to that, we add many Civil Society stakeholders and think tanks.  We also add to the consultation with women and also created in addition to the traditional G7 group, the gender, equality key.  It is to support gender as a cross stepping theme along the Canada presidency.  This general equality council is composed of multidisciplinary acts and experts and demonstrated their commitment to gender equality.  And they shaped the public discussion on gender.  The current administration in Canada is committed to progress of gender balance. 

Through the consultation, each ministerial have meetings, including the leaders summit in (?).  It was quite informed with the gender balance commitment. 

My team supported the preparation of the G7, called preparing for the job of the future ministerial meeting in March, which happened in Montreal.  And also conducted targeted participation for the ministerial.  So what we did, prior to the ministerial, we produced a digital consultation paper.  And we share that with woman and (?) stakeholder across the Canada.  Using the G7 website.  We organize a conference call with organization and follow 23 women organizations, three national indigenous organization and some of them also were speakers during the multistakeholder conference. 

We had roundtable with business and invited a lot of the stakeholder at the conference.  I think it is up to 11 speakers from around the world that took part in the ministerial.  It is a good way to get represent a diverse point of views during the conference.

As I mentioned, it is not done.  In three weeks we will organize in Montreal the G7 multistakeholder meeting on the I.  Objective is to discuss how to enable the responsible use of AI and adoption to ultimate stakeholders from the government sector, private sector perspective, Civil Society and academic research community.  And the panel members, moderators and others are carefully selected in collaboration with the G7 partners to ensure all the groups, industry governments, Civil Society and research will be equally represented as parts spin, also as speaker.

Before I mention the deficiency or challenges, I did note that you mention you want to continue to work on AI.  So it will be a pleasure to share some of the output at the conference with Japan, and we encourage Japan to continue to discuss AI during your G20 presidency.  So we think it is a really good thing that you continue to work in this field. 

About your question on what was the most difficult during all of the multistakeholder meetings, I want to flag two things. First, it is demanding, invest time, you need a team.  It is not easy to prepare the documents with the G7 countries is one thing.  On top of that, you add all the consultation with the long list.  You need a structure and a team.  You have to plan that ahead of time.  Doing that, it is feasible.  If you don't plan to build the capacity like that, as some point it becomes quite demanding.

The second thing I recommend Japan and France to take in mind when working on the project, make sure not to overconsult.  Along the year, you have all the materials, you have the leader summits and many groups, for example, when we engage with woman they will be engaged on many topics.  It is important that when you for specific consultation, when you engage with a group, don't assume that they know what you want to receive as input.  Be clear with the groups to communicate, we will hold a roundtable and want to receive views on that and that.  Be specific.  And explain what is in for them.  What is the benefit.  What is important for them to influence the debate.  If you are able to better to explain expectations and opportunities, it is a good way to attain their attention.  Thank you.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you, Samuel.  Yes, I remember the Canadian government that said overall what you say, consistent topic of gender equality.  All through the different ministerial and leader summit and you raised it as one of the most important outcomes.  It was impressive.  I didn't know how to realize such a complicated work.  But thank you for your sharing the key to the success and secret of the success in this discussion now.

Also, I remember in one session, you attended with a private entrepreneurs.  And as far as I remember it was first time to have a private people, not only to report their discussion (?) to the ministerial, but directly discuss in the ministerial meeting.  I think it was the first challenge.  And how did you think about this?  What was the evolution of that?

     >> SAMUEL WILLIS: Thank you, Yoichi Iida.  To ensure you give visible inputs into the debate to many groups, to be in a position that you don't control perfectly the discussions.  It could be a risk from our civil servant, typical perspective, but it is to be proactive, not be surprised by their comments.  If you consult in advance you are not surprised and you can provide answer and have discussion at the minister level, if you start ahead of time and before to invite the nontraditional stakeholders to the table.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much.  I thank you, Sam.  Next I want to invite Validia to talk about your experience.

    >> VALIDIA ESCUILLA: Good afternoon, everyone.  First of all, thank you for inviting us to share our experience.  For us it was also very important to look at the multistakeholder approach.  We were also aware of the difficulties that it entails.  We took the challenge.  And what we did was at the moment when we were working on the proposal as an Argentinian presidency, the first thing was to meet with all the stakeholders with all the engagement groups. 

We met, we listen to them, listen to shared interests and tried to look for meeting points on possible synergies.  Then we had our first working meeting and by then had our first working meeting we had a first round of consultation.  Meaning we tried to put their voices into our proposal.  Then we consider the proposals with the G20 delegations.

By the second meeting, what we did was to ‑‑ we did two things.  The first one was to ask all the engagement groups to write a two pages.  So we could share it in advance with our delegation.  So as background material.  We also invite them to our second working meeting as a speaker. 

     There was one group that was very effective.  And I saw back to back meeting, that was with the B20.  We organize a B20, G20, digital economy summit.  That was one day before our working meeting.

During this summit, the summit has two parts.  In the morning, speaker from the B20 and G20, it was open to the community.  So everybody could attend.  It was free.  It was free and open event.  In the afternoon a workshop with structured discussions between B20, G20 and panelists.  At each session has a panelist of both side.  And then we collect to the outcomes of the different workshop and we go to the background document for our internal discussions.

We tried in the multistakeholder approach to coordinate as much as possible with other working groups in the G20.  There were working points on the agendas.  An example is the future of work, digital, education and employment.  And what we did was we had a workshop with employment and the education group.  And in this ‑‑ from this workshop, participate delegates from our task force and for this working groups.  Trying to have a common vision of a future of work. 

In parallel, the final straw was working on a manual of policy options to address the challenges and opportunities of future work, and they made a round of internal consultation with all the working groups.

Another way of integrating the multistakeholder approach was in this (?).  And picking up of the ‑‑ on the Germans' role of digitalization, we had five deliverables.  We want them to be actionable, useful, and also open to the public.  Actually, you can find them online.  The deliverables were for the interventions for high‑level government.  Then nine high‑level recommendations for reaching the gender divide, these came out of consultation with the G20 countries. 

We asked them what are you doing in your country?  What are some initiatives are you sharing policy actions you are taking to reach the digital divide.  Send them to me.  We made a report.  From this report, we simplified the nine high‑level recommendations. 

We also did similar process for the measure of the digital economy.  We developed the G20 toolkit for measure the digital economy.  That got all the indicators, the methodological approach, and measurement gaps in the measures of the digital economy.  It has a section with the initiatives conducted by G20 countries to address the measurement issue. 

And also taking in the infrastructure, we also develop high‑level recognitions for accelerating the deployment of infrastructure.  And finally, what I think is the most interesting deliverable is we launch in the summit, the G20 repository of digital policies. 

And in the first moment, it will be filled with policy actions conducted by governments, but hopefully second stage, it will be open to private sector and Civil Society, so everybody can ‑‑ it is an open‑code platform, so people can upload the policy action initiatives.  That is accessible to the public, but hopefully in the second stage, not only public to share this experience and learn from each other. 

So this is how we try to integrate the multistakeholder approach from the Argentinian presidency from the task force of the digital economy.  Now that the process is almost finished, I go more with what Daniela said, the challenge was sequence.  It is short, the time constraints are huge, it is many agendas and events, you have to coordinate internally and externally, the sequence of work, sometimes it is hard to integrate. 

So as a final reflection, I will say that we should look for no only ways of bringing more voices to the table, but bringing the voices to the table is not enough to translate them into a concrete outcome.  We have to have room for improvement, but I think we're on the right track.  We are learning from presidency to presidency.  That's all. 

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you, Validia.  You mentioned, it is difficult for even the government to succeed the previous work to the next presidency, and we will be careful in doing so next year.  It is even more difficult to succeed or maintain the continuity in the discussion with different stakeholders, so from that sense, we always want to listen to the multistakeholders.  Thank you.

So sorry to keep you waiting, Lita.  Just briefly?

     >> LITA FORCIO:  Thank you.  Thank you for inviting me as a representative of the Italian government, it is useful in the meeting, because of the preparation of very important moment.  I would like to just provide some information.  Practical information about the event we establish last year, in the framework of the G7 meeting.  And because our ministry organize it and in particular thematic meeting, on the making the next production of inclusion and open securer. 

The Italian minister of economic development organize the multistakeholder conference.  I would like to read some of the information, just not to forget anything. 

And the conference was the same of what I said.  Making the digital economy.  Inclusive, open, secure.  And the venue of the conference was the same as the G7 meeting.  The venue of the Royal Palace. 

     The discussion was opened by the Secretary of State for Telecom and introduced by the commissioner for the digital agenda.  It was operating within the Prime Minister's office.  Also by your (?) and the director of science and technology innovation.

The conference was divided into four consecutive sessions, each with a different moderator.  Professional journalists.  And each session, the keynote speech, a panel of four to five people.  And the question, answers.  And the session where the digital revolution, the free flow of information in the sustainable growth.  Securing the cyberspace for business and towards beneficial artificial intelligence in digital society.  It was with a scientific coordinator, identified the minister of the economic development, a professor, from academia and politic from Milano, Roma, so on. 

Scientific coordinators selected the speakers ensuring a fair balance internationally.  And work on the proposal made the member countries.  They wrap up the session with the arrival of the ministers.  They listened to the conclusion of the four scientific coordinators, and also Diego (?).   Diego was the chair of the 17 groups of particular session organizing and give some arguments.  And gave the final remarks, moderated by the deputy by way of the paper in Italy. 

On the financial front, costs were totally borne by the Italian government to the trade promotion agency.  It took charge of the travel and accomodation cost for the speaker in addition to the rooms rent and (?).  These are project,  practical information.  No particular problems. No particular difficulties.  I can say it was a very successful event. 

Now I can just contribute to some idea about the principal topics underlined by our government.  The Italian government has the priorities of the development of emerging technologies, artificial intelligence, blockchain, and IoT

About the artificial intelligence, would like to deepen our knowledge on the matter, and Italy, for this reason, is establishing a group of expert that will draft the nation's position on the artificial intelligence.  The aim is that the policies and tools that are related to the development of that option of artificial intelligence. 

And Italy also gives it a lot of importance, most intention to the blockchain, to acknowledge it and like to the name of the partnership is a corporation.  The partnership also in European, it is a cooperation between the member state, the best practice and skills.  And the lack too highlighted the need of Italy and France.  These are topics that are now on the table.  We would like to contribute to the organization for the event of next year.  Thank you.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much.  Thank you very much.  We recognize finance is one of the difficulties when we try to promote multistakeholder approach.  I'm very sorry to keep the speakers from the private sector waiting for long time.  I assume we have Ms. Natasha ‑‑ very difficult to pronounce.  Crystal Simeon.  W20.  And also Mr. or Ms. Nina Okama.  Okay, thank you very much.  Please take the floor.  Please explain.  Maybe I would ask that you talk about your experience and also your maybe request or wish to the government of how you think easier to present multistakeholder approach.  Please take the floor.

     >> AUDIENCE: Natasha and myself represent (speaking non‑English language) which means "Never Without Them."  Feminine pronoun.  It was founded in January 2016, by a small network of actors, mostly in digital economy, including what we have here.  It developed quickly into an active movement, expanding through the social media with hashtag (speaking non‑English language).  Natasha is the spokesperson of the association.  The only reason why I'm speaking instead of her is because she's not so fluent in English.  Since the time is short, I will try to convey the message. 

In just one word, (speaking non‑English language) is promoting gender diversity and woman inclusion in all sectors of society. Originally through a simple action which does not apply any special policy and can be applied by anyone immediately. 

By signing the pledge, I commit myself to never participate to any panel, conference or expert panel of any sort, if there are no women. I let it know.  It is straightforward, but it proved remarkably efficient in requiring from the organizers of events and committees that they indeed pay attention to genders.  In fact, many prominent stakeholders in the digital world and beyond have adopted the pledge and promoted it in their environment.  With concrete and enduring effects.  The effect is not limited to women participation, but it is to focus on access to women in key leading positions and all types of environment. 

The movement reached also the political world with many deputies and senators joining in and also the ministry of foreign affairs in France, the minister himself and minister for the European affairs signed themselves and sent accord to all French ambassadors and consumers around the world to commit themselves.  And in Germany, actually the German minister of states for Europe Michael (?) became an active is promoter of the movement.

We're here because we're participating in the W20 summit, preparation for the meeting in Buenos Aires. Two weeks from now, actually.  We were invited by the Argentinian leaders of the engagement group to work with 100 delegates from the G20 countries with very different profiles. This is multistakeholderism in practice for several months and it led to series of recommendations finalized during the W20 summit last month, where Natasha and I were the head of the deligation for France.  The main thing we learned from the process is the multistakeholder approach is absolutely crucial when it comes to addressing issues in disruptive domains such as digital economies.  Disruptive in the sense that they interact with traditional organization of society whether of the work or relation between people in a way that offers remarkable opportunities but also carries some threats and possibilities of imbalance and potentially leaving people along the way. 

This is the case for various issues regarding digital inclusion, but the question of woman inclusion in general also impacts the organization relations with society.

As it turns out, the two are not unrelated, of course.  Digital economy can be a powerful tool of empowerment, through digital entrepreneurship, obviously, but by giving access to larger opportunities and including opportunities, visibility, influence and participation of individuals.

Because of new horizon can open in many different ways at different paces at different contexts and lead to different types of reaction, side effects, negative or positive, the multistakeholder approach is crucial.  What we learned from this experience is it can be efficient.  The first message regarding multistakeholderism is what is needed is not representativeness, per se, but most of all expertise.  No one has universal expertise.  Because digital economy is pervasive, it is bound to raise problems in all sorts of areas and require steps that may not have been anticipated in the first place.  The interesting example is the way artificial intelligence has proved to have a strong gender bias in different contexts.

So you don't want everyone on board to be able to say look, we're open great, very inclusive.  You want on board all the people that can contribute and show other participants what they would not have seen or been able to think about by themselves.

Therefore, you need to include different types of tech soldiers.  In the case of the W20, the delegates don't just come from countries with different situations, and traditions, regarding situation of woman, whether in Canada, Japan, India, Argentina, or Saudi Arabia.  They have different profiles or backgrounds.  Civil Society, rural areas, women right fighters, entrepreneurs, local association, NGOs. 

Anyway, to come back to the process itself, it developed through a series of online meetings, webinars, sharing of experience, documents and information.  It was organized into four distinct areas, with links,of course, work inclusion, finance inclusion, digital inclusion, and this year the Argentinian leadership wanted to have a special focus on woman in rural areas, which proved meaningful, actually. 

Each of the components had a physical meeting in the form of the workshop during the year.  Each in a different country.  In the case of digital inclusion, it was in Paris.  Finally, 65 delegates from the 20 countries were able to meet in person for the woman summit in Buenos Aires,  W20 last month.  The official communique was finalized, approved with recommendations.  Three of which focused on digital inclusion.

This was an interesting experience regarding multistakeholderism in general.  Writing the official committees, at the end of the day is not an easy task.  You have to come up with actual sentences that everybody agrees on.

But in the case of G20 or G7 engagement groups, this is not a political or diplomatic issue. This is left for the actual summit for the heads of states.  It is more on the promulgation that should not only suit everyone, but be efficient globally.  This is the key point.  Being efficient means making sense in all sorts of environments and not rushing to meet a show stopper that would not have been thought of if one did not have the complete perspective. 

This requires true interaction over time to better knowing of each other's problematic and gain wider knowledge and expertise to be included in our own views and preparation.

This is another important message.  We need time to be efficient and need to be a community.  The Argentinian women who led the W20 this year are making a lot of efforts in this direction to keep the ball running and turn this intense activity that took place on this occasion into a longer term process supported by efficient and proactive community. 

So for this, we need appropriate tools, we need the platform, the digital platform, suitable framework and free, reactive framework.  Not too organized or too diffuse.  And financial resources as well.  The various states and governments should not supervise the work and interactions.  It should provide minimum resources to make sure that these works and interactions grow and lead to concrete results.

The example of the W20 community can be very good starting point.  There is the question of continuity of one year to the next, as you mention.  Some heritage is transmitted in the creation of the W20 during the Turkish presidency.  Actually next week in Tokyo there will be a meeting at the Argentinian Embassy for the W20 Argentina hand over, and W20 Japan kickoff.  Dedicated resources to keep the momentum are definitely needed. 

It is the responsibility of G7 and G20 countries governance to make sure it continues at that level of the groups.  Remember in particular, the various stakeholders and delegates have been working solely on their own resources so far.  We all know the limits of that.  In addition, this creates a bias and some imbalance between different types of stakeholders, depending on resources they can deploy in short term or  long‑term.  This is of course detrimental to the very  idea of multistakeholderism. 

Right.  Finally, coming back to the digital issues (?) And subjects to push forward, but this is not the place to discuss them.  From the general point of view, we believe that the gender balance should be adopted everywhere.  And gender diversity should be ensured at all levels of reflection,  decision, and actions.  This view is shared by more and more people, including the digital ecosystem.  A few months ago we developed a charter together with Microsoft France, which is very proactive in this direction.  Or so, last Monday at this forum, we announced a pledge aimed at Internet governance organizations and think tanks, which has been signed by the Internet Society, France. (?) 

 This is a part of the multistakeholderism in the fact that actions and commitments can emerge from various societies and economical actors can give experience to be shared, transplanted and adopted everywhere. 

Another important example is education, which is key the to digital economy and digital schools have attracted a lot of attention in France.  I won't go into details.

To finish, keep in mind that all the efforts make sense only in view of a more ethical, more pacified, equitable, and more inclusive world.  The technology is what it is.  The digital revolution must be humanist and as we strongly believed in the association, feminism is a humanism.  So thank you very much. 

     >> MODERATOR: Finally, yes, please.

     >> AUDIENCE:  Thank you very much.  I'm well aware of our time.  Some people may be hungry at this time.  I will say three things, I will cover how, what, and why. 

Under the how, I will speak about three things.  Under the what, two things.  And there is only one why. 

Okay.  My name is Nenna.  I'm the policy director of the World Wide Web Foundation.  So how did we work?  As Civil Society we work with other organizations.  ISOC is here and Mozilla.  We did work as a group together to bring out the (?).  How did we do that?  We used the web.  That is what we have generally.  We worked virtually, we held meetings, we drafted simultaneously online.  We did not have all the means to have face‑to‑face meetings, so we used the World Wide Web a lot.      We focused on the digital agenda.  G20 is big.  We can't have all the engagement, all the time.  So what we did is focus on our efforts which are shown later.  We pull resources.  We can't be everywhere all the time.  So where it is better for Mozilla to be present, they're present.  Where ISOC is better,  ISOC, will be present.  And with the W20, the web foundation was physically present. 

So the three things we did in the how was focus our efforts.  We want to do more with the French, digital part and pool our resources.  So what is our input?  The later is G20.  Go to G20openletter.org.  That is the main message, G20.org. 

What are we asking for?  Meaningful access that is one of those.  Privacy and data protection of our rights.  Freedom of expression, cybersecurity and increased level field competition.  Once again, it is important to put these on the table, not just this year and next years coming.  As France takes over G7 as well, we don't want to separate them.  We want to be on your back and in your face at the same time.

The second thing is that last Monday ‑‑ the second what. The first what is the G20 itself.  The G20openletter.org.  And the second is contract for the web dot org.  Which was launched last Monday, and the French signed up for this giving key principles towards a digital economy that are respectful of human rights and all of the above we asked for.

Those are two the whats.  The letter and the contract.  Why are we doing this?  With all the people engaging Civil Society, coming to you, being in your face, being at your back, mailing you, pinging you,  on Twitter.  Why are we doing this?  Because we believe ‑‑ this is the why ‑‑ Citizens and consumers have a right to be placed at the center of sessions around the digital economy.  It is our right.  We want to be in your center, your front, behind you, because it is our right.  Thank you very much.

     >> MODERATOR: Okay.  Thank you very much.  So we are almost exhausting the time.  But let me ask, invite ICC to make short  comment.      I want to take one or two questions from the floor.  I ask her if we have one minute was all.  So please.

     >> AUDIENCE: Thank you, my name is Elizabeth Thomas Renault, I'm with the International Chamber of Commerce.  I will be brief.  I appreciate that we're running late.  I think there are a lot of things that are easy to pick up on from what has been said, so I will highlight some of those.

First and foremost, I want to thank the organizers for having the discussion.  It reflects well that you are considering it so much that you are sharing what is being learned in the process.  Those of us on the stakeholder side, we're learning lots.  To be able to have an exchange for that is useful. 

For those not familiar with the International Chamber of Commerce, very briefly, it is the world business organization.  It has an interaction with a lot of U.N. agencies, we're an official observer to the U.N.  We work internationally.  I want you to know that because we have presence in 100 countries.  The policies reflect cooperation from the input across a much wider breadth of countries other than the interaction on G20 or other specific activities. 

The other reason I want to mention that is one of the things we heard about and stress is global and local activities need to reinforce one another.  What we find is in some countries you have strong and robust multistakeholder policy engagement activities.  Sometimes you don't.  When you miss those, there are other ways in which we are trying to make sure to get the clear, global perspective on what business in this case needs for the digital economy to be innovative, to make the investments, to have the activities moving toward forward toward sustainable development.

The other point that is important, and I heard others say it, is given the transversal nature of ICT ‑‑ we talk about the digital economy today, but I think like we talk about gender mainstreaming, we will find ourselves mainstreaming this topic right through across the economy and society to the point we don't have this term any more.

In the meantime, it is essential that our engagement and our consultation processes do reflect that point, that as somebody before me said, the expertise really matters, not just the representation.  If you are missing somebody who has the trade understanding implications of data flows and not on the discussion on digital economy or conversely, if you have someone who has specific expertise in the technology of the security mechanisms that are needed or someone that is thinking about it from healthcare perspective or banking sector, you are missing something in the policy.  Often we see it in a number of forums, where a lot of the topics, be it artificial intelligence, block chain, data protection, over the top services, any of the different topics, artificial intelligence, blockchain, data protection, over the top services, any of these kind of different topics, different areas are looking at them.  So the transversal part is really important. 

I heard, I think our German colleague at the beginning trying to work on the linkages between the different fora.  I think that is an important point.  I think also the notion of interdisciplinary cross reflection.  So as somebody is working on the SME paper, making sure there is a process for the people working on digital economy or trade or banking to be looking across each other.  I know in the B20 process with Argentina, there was a significant exercise undertaken building on previous years.  I commend and encourage those aspects to continue.

I think there is an awareness that the danger of creating consultation tracks for different stakeholders can be a disintegration of the process.  What I am seeing in recent years is an awareness to that and efforts to make a linkages directly to the G20.  I would deeply courage G7 and G20 organizers in the future to consider how that happens.  Of course, the points made about the importance of the time and planning.  As we know, there are always more voices than the time we have.  I am going to pass it back to our organizers and say thank you for including me.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you very much for all the comment.  (Off microphone).

     I have to close the session right now.  We will commit ourselves to (?) information, findings from this ‑‑ not only this but all of those including yourself.  Thank you for doing that.  I'm sorry about that forum.  That is the time (?). 

Thank you very much.