IGF 2018 - Day 3 - Salle III - WS219 Unleash the Power of Digital Economy & Society with Mobile Internet

The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the Thirteenth Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF) in Paris, France, from 12 to 14 November 2018. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record. 



>> MODERATOR: Good morning, everyone.  I believe we're going to start.  We are waiting for our remote participant.  He might join us as we start with introductions. 

My name is Sandra Cortesi.  I'm the director of the Youth in Media project at Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society.  If you were expecting someone else here, I am basically a last‑minute replacement for someone that couldn't be here today, but I hope you will be happy with my moderation.

The title is "Unleash the Power of Digital Economy and Society With the Mobile Internet."  Looking at my colleagues that I will introduce in a second, I think the aim for this session is ‑‑ this is day 3, yes?  We have heard and spoken a lot.  Particularly yesterday, I was in an interesting session looking at social innovation in the Global South.  We talked about different examples, challenges, and opportunities using digital technology from AI to mobile phones. 

I think the goal today is ‑‑ and Patrick and his colleagues that organized the session is to also get a sense from you, what you have observed over the last year or so, particularly looking at positive applications or use cases using digital technology; although, we will also touch upon the challenges we have observed this year.  We want a sense from you where you see opportunities and positive‑use cases.  I hope that makes so far a good sense to all of you. 

Quickly the two interventionists or panelist ‑‑ Stephen has joined, awesome.  The three panelists and interventionists that we have here today...  On my very left, first, I have Patrick Nommensen, representing the private sector as a USA/EU policy manager for Bytedance. 

And next to him we have Caroline Jeanmarie, based here in France.  She's representing Civil Society as an AI policy researcher at recently ‑‑ last year, I believe, at the incubated think tank of The AI Initiative of the Future Society, a think tank incubated at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government. 

And remote participation ‑‑ this is my first one, so I'm actually really excited ‑‑ hope technology doesn't fail us, we have Stephen Mawutor Donkor representing the technical community joining remotely from Ankara in Ghana. 

I am really excited about the session.  It will go as following.  I would love to hear who you are, just quickly introduce yourself with name and say where you work or where you are coming from, and then I have three questions for the fellow panelists here.  So we're going to ‑‑ most of the other sessions that I was in was intervention after intervention, after intervention.  This time, we will give three questions, the people on the panel will respond quickly, and next question and responding quickly.  I hope so far that makes sense to you. 

If we could start with a quick introduction and ‑‑ I don't know if we want to start with Leonel who volunteered to be online moderator.  Also very last‑minute colleague of mine.  Thank you. 

(Distorted audio, unclear)


     >> AUDIENCE: I come in from (?) Casa Blanca, Morocco.  I have some interest in aspects like IPV6, cybersecurity, and other things.

     >> AUDIENCE: I'm Peter (?).  I work as a consultant here in UNESCO, in the communication information sector.

     >> AUDIENCE: Good morning.  My name is Saski, I'm from Japanese Ministry.  Thank you. 

     >> AUDIENCE: (Away from microphone)

     >> MODERATOR: Wonderful.  Thank you so much for these introductions.  So as I mentioned before, I have three questions for my colleagues here on the panel.  Maybe we start with Caroline.  The first question I have for the three of you is:  What do you do, and what does your organization do?  And what is the biggest take‑away from 2018?  Thank you.

   >> CAROLINE JEANMARIE JEANMARIE: Good morning, everyone.  I'm Caroline Jeanmarie, I work for the Future Society.  I am an AI policy researcher.  The Future Society is an AI and policy governance think tank originally incubated at Harvard School.  We shape the governance ‑‑ aim to shape the governance of AI with positive innovations and mitigating risks from emerging technologies and AI.  We do so with and for international organizations, national governments, corporations, nonprofit and more.  So we pursue or mission with research, convenings, as well as moon shot projects, (?) governance projects.  Adversary and executive investigation. 

So my biggest take away from 2018, like looking all what happened with emerging technologies this past year, like the largest events is the dire need for more cooperation in trusts, in governance of emerging technologies.  So we are in an AI and emerging technologies revolution.  And because it is unprecedented in scale and rapidity.  Doing so, we're on a rocket ship together, aiming for beneficial future.  But in order for us to steer toward this beneficial future we definitely need coordination and pragmatism.  So these kind of convening here at IGF is necessary, as we heard with different stakeholders, a mix of governance, corporations and much more needed.  Because we need (audio skipping).  In California last June.  And we saw massive innovation happening in China, around the world, U.S. as well.  What we saw is it is possible to find common grounds in applications of technology. 

     AI and healthcare, mobile and the future of finance.  And inclusion with finance.  So we have common concerns, common grounds and this is what gives me hope for the future.  But we need to work towards that.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much Caroline.  Stephen, if it you can hear us, we're curious also to hear a little more from you.  Who are you?  What do you do?  What is your take away from 2018?  No?


     >> MODERATOR: Yes, we can hear you, thank you.

     >> STEPHEN MAWUTOR DONKOR: My name is Stephen Mawutor Donkor, I'm speaking from (?).  I'm representing African open data, an information research foundation.  And an NGO in Ghana.  Aside being a technical lead for (?) Internet Society, I attend a couple of organizations.  I'm on a panel for out of Ghana (audio skipping).  That is how come currently I'm not able to be in Paris.  I'm actually a trainer on one of the programs that is happening currently here in Ghana, which is an open cities Africa.  Open cities Africa is currently aimed at making some of the cities in tech in Africa resilient.  It is open data Africa. 

One of the things we believe, particularly in Ghana is there is (?) for data.  One of the things we took upon ourselves is to create a lot of data when using different technologies or emerging technologies that is actually available from AI to IoT to embedded systems.  So most of the things that we try to actually facilitate now was that most of all, data system or most of the data that is actually generated in this part of the world of Ghana to specific locations, that is the specifics of the government (?).  We don't have most of our data being open.  So one of the things that we're looking at is how best can we educate people on how we can use emerging technology and block chain technology to make whatever data we want to make available as much secure possible as it is for us.  We're having people to be able to connect security on the back online.  (?)

For me, I have an education in telecommunication, engineering, and work for a couple of Telecos.  When I saw the topic, it was an interest, and I said I will see what it is.  What others are thinking about or where it is being driven to.  That is why I am here today.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much.  So, Patrick, a little bit more about you.  Thank you.

     >> PATRICK NOMMENSEN: I'm Patrick, I am a manager at Bytedance.  We have a portfolio of apps, that you might be familiar with, it used to be called musically, now Tik Tok, it is a short formatted video product, that has about 6 million active users.  Bytedance is a content technology company, we use this technology in video and tech space and content.  We're excited to be here.  Thanks, Sandra for moderating and helping organize this. 

A little about the key take away from 2018, to keep it brief, to get to the discussion, I think what we're seeing is a lot of digital platforms and digital companies in general whether they have platforms or not, is being aware in creating safer communities, safer online experiences, whether that comes to sharing cybersecurity, what is acceptable and not acceptable in online behavior, and setting more secure passwords.  Companies are taking this seriously and understanding the responsibility they play as a digital player in the mark and this digital connected world.  So that is kind of something that really stood out to us in 2018.  We're really excited to be part of that.  It is a huge opportunity.  And yeah.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you, Patrick.  I know you wanted to also focus on the positive sides of digital technology, particularly in the context of Bytedance and emerging technology  ‑‑ mobile technology and emerging technology. 

Second question right back at you, what are two concerns that keep you awake at night, in particular leveraging the Internet for societal or educational or cultural purposes?

     >> PATRICK NOMMENSEN: Good question.  One of the unique challenges with a substantiallized platform, there is a not of new users connecting to the Internet or using such interest‑based video platforms or online platforms in general for the first time.  Or users that are not new to the Internet but don't understand how to use such apps or protect themselves online.  It relates back to the key them we have seen in 2018, companies taking a more proactive stance taking responsibility.  But with that also comes a big challenge.  We have done a lot this last year in terms of publishing safety center materials, releasing more privacy and safety‑oriented settings and controls and features within the app.  Partnerships with NGOs and providing resources and so forth, getting public awareness out there.  What keeps me up at night is there a lot of people that the contents need to reach and there is near to be ‑‑ more to be done to reach those.  That is a big challenge for us and the whole industry to address.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much Patrick.  Caroline, maybe, what keeps you up at night, two concerns, maybe?

   >> CAROLINE JEANMARIE JEANMARIE: I think these are big issues.  I think it is a big, interesting, serious question.  I would think about cybersecurity issues.  So cyber attacks, and hacking are actually very large issues because we have more and more devices connected to us.  So through our mobile phones we have IoT, wearables and toys, for children.  And we have more and more data to be hacked and to be hacked or spies or taken over and shut down.  This involves quite a lot of challenges.  In the meanwhile, we have a shortage of talent in cybersecurity.  So it is a challenge that we see.  So a second challenge would be manipulation.  That would be for common purposes.  So for example, fake videos, hacking or targeted ads that have strong power for mass manipulation.  This is something we are like worried about.  At the same time, see feel there are projects emerging to stabilize cyber space.  So the concept of digital peace, for example, is pretty interesting to me, the idea that we want to have peace and safe cyber space, free from hacking, et cetera, at least with fewer hackings. 

So we're working towards that.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much.  Stephen, if you can still hear us, what are two concerns that keep you up at night?

     >> STEPHEN MAWUTOR DONKOR: Okay.  Now it is good.

     >> MODERATOR: Now it is good?  Okay.

     >> STEPHEN MAWUTOR DONKOR: Can you hear me?

     >> MODERATOR: Perfect.  Thank you. 


     >> MODERATOR: Yes, we can hear you. 

Oh, ...

     >> STEPHEN MAWUTOR DONKOR: Actually, (?) hacking, hacking in the sense that you are being able to have whatever system or more data being connected.  One of the main points is secure systems are allowing access to as many people as possible.  But with me, generally, as much as there is increase in technology and increase in access to Internet, we still have a huge amount of communities that are not connected to mobile phone or Internet.  Why not be able to have access to that information as it is as required for the occasion or whatever research that is proposed (audio skipping) (?)

Another key thing at the back of my mind personally is how well, how best or how cost‑effective is one able to transport technology to the remotest parts of our community so they have access and how much information or how the abundant information actually on the Internet.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you.  And since we have you already on the line, and that's quite complicated, it seems.  I have a third question for you that maybe you wouldn't mind answering.  The third question would be: What are two themes or areas of focus that you are looking forward to in 2019?  What gets you excited or where are you optimistic?

     >> STEPHEN MAWUTOR DONKOR: Um ... it would be the same connectivity in remote areas, or (indiscernible ‑ no mic)

SIM card for emergencies or hospitals or communications being able to have access (audio skipping) that are able to connect people.  (?)

In Ghana, currently, the open data system, it is not gaining way.  We have a huge chunk of data that is not available to people that are looking for it.  You might be looking for information.  (?) it might take you longer time to be able to actually get that data.  So one of the things that I'm looking for is the connectivity to the (audio skipping)  (?) and how are they able to connect to the Internet and have advantage of the resources as it is.  (?)

And be able to have as much data open as possible. 

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much, Stephen.  What gets you excited, what are you excited about, what are you going to work and tackle in 2019, Caroline?

   >> CAROLINE JEANMARIE JEANMARIE: A few people in the room talked about AI in developing countries and tackling climate change.  Those are immense issues, I am excited to see what the technologies can do to help us tackle this.  We will explore this topic in Dubai for the world ‑‑ the global governance of AI roundtable at the world governance summit.  We're doing this in cooperation with IOD, IEEE and UNESCO.  And for the environmental positive innovations, for example.

But we are also working to mitigate the ethical and safety risks.  So that is the first area of focus.  So this global cooperation, and second area of cooperation that I'm really hopeful about is the applications of AI in other emerging technologies that can foster more cooperation between the U.S. and China.  So these are available AI for mobility or AI for SG.  We are also going to organize an event in China.  Hopefully we'll have Bytedance with us.  We will explore how to enable the changes and have the shared prosperity for all.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much.  Last but not least, Patrick, what gets you really excited about and what are you going to focus on in 2019.

     >> PATRICK NOMMENSEN: There are two main areas ‑‑ actually many areas, two areas that I will touch upon.  First being building more tools that will connect people better and help people discover unique, interesting things about the world they may not know.  What I mean by that, one example is users discovering hidden museum that are kind of like the beauty gems of countries, especially in the developing world that have previously not seen or received exposure on the global stage.  This is a trend we're starting to see, something we're quite excited to help continue, foster and grow next year.  Another area is building more tools that allow users to express themselves and share creativity and imagination. 

You know, mobile phones are getting so much more powerful really across the world, and you can do a lot of things with AR, VR, AI, in terms of music and effects and so forth on even pretty low‑end devices, actually.  That presents a fun opportunity for users to better express themselves and like I said use creativity imagination.  This is a really core value to us.  Something we're excited about.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much to all three of you.  So with this, we wanted to really make sure we have enough time for questions, discussion.  The broad open questions would also be to you.  What are things you are particularly concerned about?  Maybe you have observed over the course of this year.  But also, really, what are things that excite you and that you're thinking of focusing on in 2019 or questions for my colleagues here on the panel.  Anyone?  I know it is day 3, but maybe could also be an observation you had from the last two days.  Is there something you heard that maybe also surprised you that you said now going home this is something to makes me optimistic and I will continue to tackle it?  Yes?  If you don't mind, quickly introduce yourself again, I'm supposed to remind people of that.

     >> AUDIENCE: Hi, I'm Albert crow, I am from Colombia.  What I heard in this days is actually a good idea about how to use IE in order to help environment and help to the environment.  And is that maybe there are forums to introduce IE in environment in the information in the enterprises that use raw material and then manufacture it.  Because if you have the data of how many customers or how many clients are going to purchase a product, maybe that information is useful to adapt your supply chain.  In order that you tell your suppliers how many material you need.  So I think that's a good idea.  Because, if you know how the quantity of material you have to manufacture, you can help the environment producing less trash with the information you are receiving.  And you can give satisfaction to your customers as well.  So I think that is a good idea.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much.  Any other one willing to share a take away from the last two days?  Something you will focus on for the next year that you are really excited about?  Yes, please.

     >> AUDIENCE: Um, so my question is that, in the superior AI technologies being made, in particular areas of the world by certain corporations.  So I want to focus on AI for good.  But that as you said, it is accessing a knowledge like never before or solving environmental issues.  So I'm Shawn Mo we are (?) in India.  How do we ensure the benefits of AI technology is spread across the world, not concentrated in certain regions.  When we talk about AI for good, we want to make sure it is for the global population at large.  Thank you.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much.  I know it is also a big question back.  So maybe Caroline, and maybe Patrick, if you have something additional.  Stephen if you want to add at any point something, please feel free to do so.

   >> CAROLINE JEANMARIE JEANMARIE: It is a valid question, important.  The emerging technologies have a monopolistic tendencies.  To concentrate in U.S., China, Europe centers.  These are important issues, that is why a lot of countries have released recently national policies on AI.  So France released a policy recently.  But indeed India as well is working on becoming an AI garage to incubate AI projects for developing countries.  But I think it is very important question.  I would say like national strategies need to focus on areas of comparative advantage of their countries.  So that's probably a very important factor.  And then a second factor that I think is really important for all countries is invest in talents.  So talents are a resource for AI development.  And if you develop it you have more chance to catch up.  And finally, I would say that there is a responsibility for governance, national institutions, corporations to find ways to share the benefits and the applications of AI.  So there are different ways to do so.  There are nonprofits that are working on this.  AI for all is nonprofits working on this.  But to teach women of colors how to code.  This kind of innovation, these applications need to be scaled. 

And finally, like open access to applications of AI would be a solution.

     >> AUDIENCE: I'm excited about the fact that we're moving toward a world where we can depend on Internet, Internet you can trust.  My fears, obviously, are intrusion, privacy, and personal space.  I'm not sure how we can do ‑‑ how can we avoid the fear of confidentiality and privacy. 

Number two, as we do walk towards ‑‑ depending on Internet and trusting the digital technology, the question is, we have certain issues that these systems and technologies will not fill.  Because if this crash forward moving a country and region, we have people that don't know the real world sufficiently.  And we want to work, we want to do, we (?) online, what do we do?

     >> MODERATOR: Is there something you feel particularly excited about?  I hear your concerns and I share many of them.  But what gets you excited?  What are you optimistic about?

     >> AUDIENCE: Is that we want to have bigger accessibility to the world.  To give more people access to technology and digital capacity.  I'm also very excited that the world is working towards available access.  (?) with the digital capacity.  Those are good because we are moving everybody together from the village, from the towns, and from different parts of the world to become a common platform, which become almost a lifestyle.  That is exciting.  We are trusting the Internet. 

But the other fears, at the back of my mind, can we develop foolproof Internet?

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much.

     >> AUDIENCE: Thank you.  (?) from Morocco.  I think one that we take into the development, we must focus on in the first level of this development, now, on the other thing, because we must develop some tools for cybersecurity, we have more ways to do this.  I think that ‑‑ we can continue with this risk.  We could continue development in the first level for trying this growth and not for (?) in forcing development, I think. 

     >> MODERATOR: Yes, please.

     >> AUDIENCE: I just ‑‑ this is something that just pop into my mind.  It is that, for instance, in the ‑‑ there is a good thing in the news industry.  And it is that before the reading of the newspaper was a passive consumer of news.  And now as in newspapers started to change to web platforms, so, that is now the business.  Because the consumer world changed, it is not passive, it is active.  So because ‑‑ people now interact with the news and they don't just read them, as before.  So I think there is a good way to control fake news, for instance, because community can be aware of web platforms.  I think that is another good opportunity for the technology and innovation to make things better.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you.  I have ‑‑ yes, please. 

     >> AUDIENCE: It is also sharing thoughts.  I thought it would be interesting in the technology today in the way that mobile Internet can disrupt things.  Also it will disrupt.  We say it is great with connectivity, et cetera.  I bring this thought from another session about how it actually also can, in some ways, increase existing inequalities.  For example, in some countries when you bring in the Internet, you are like well, more people are actually connected.  It is great.  But you have the gender question of actually men having access to the technologies and how can you change that. 

You have places where people have more Internet, it is actually the men who have phone and mostly women are not allowed to have them because it is too dangerous for them to be in contact with other people, how do you control what they will do?  It is super interesting in the questions is how can we scale up the technologies, emerging technologies to have the biggest (?) and to people who are not connected in the communities to empower themselves and take up the new technologies as well.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much.  Maybe back to my fellow panelists here.  How do you address questions around inequality in your daily work?

     >> PATRICK NOMMENSEN: Yeah, that is a great question.  You know, with our applications, it is ‑‑ I think with the applications specific, it is less so an issue.  It is more so like you were mentioning about access to the device or Internet in the first place.  For our platforms, it is a community‑based platform.  Yes, can post content publicly, but you can also post privately.  That is important in the areas where the intention is, perhaps a fear (?) Or if you don't want others to know you are posting certain content.  There are tools, to help with that being addressed.  I agree, there is a bigger challenge.  Before it even comes to application specific.  That is something that also needs to be addressed.

   >> CAROLINE JEANMARIE JEANMARIE: I guess we have a few ways to tackle this.  First, within ourselves.  I think like our team wants to tackle is very committed to tackle inequalities.  Over 2/3 of our team is women, they are women.  It is already like pretty ‑‑ pretty original in this industry.  But we are also working on all (?) (audio skipping) and we are focused on having gender equality in geographic representation.  So this is something we're working on, for example, at the meeting organizing in Dubai at the well government summit.  Usually, it is really hard to have representatives from Africa or like Latin America or Caribbean in these kinds of instances, at least it should be more focused to have representation of this area.  So we are tackling this by having them at the table.  And the second way we are tackling this problem is by working on ‑‑ we know this is not enough.  The problem is we still have probably like the heads of the leaders of the countries and not the whole fuller presentation.  This is just a process that is starting.  We're very aware of this.  The second way to tackle this issue actually work on research on the topics.  So we are working with Harvard students on the project in collaboration with the well banks on the AI digital innovation for developing countries.

How to develop a framework can be applied to developing countries.  So that they're empowered.  So this is the beginning.  But it is such an interesting topic.  And we should, like, be talking about it more with empowerment and local initiatives about these topics.

     >> AUDIENCE: One more remark.  I think it is great you have thought about it, it is not just about access to the technology itself, but also about the questions of how safe you feel also online.  There is a lot of that against women and L.G.B.T. communities.  How do you make sure the content is not (?).  And to connect at the local content also addresses your problems.  And there is a question of algorithms, there is some use of the words against others, for example, it is said recently on YouTube, some videos were less shown because they were women.  And the question about (?) where there is the question of how much it is actually a good model for some kids.  Because you have some really small girl who would really do sexualizing things.  And how do you feel about this image when you are really young.  There is a lot to do on AI.  (Audio skipping)

     >> PATRICK NOMMENSEN: I think in terms of the content, right, like you were saying, what is acceptable and tolerable?  And not only black and white, is what is in the culture that the people wish to see and not to see in the various countries and markets around the world.  We think the only way to address this accurately, right, is to have a very localized approach when it comes to moderation, for example, and really understanding and respecting the norms that might take place in these places around the world, you know, we in our position may not understand.  And so this is something that we're doing.  We have had moderation in many countries around the world in working with advisors and so forth to understand this.  That helped a lot in regards to that.

     >> AUDIENCE: Thank you.  Thank you also to the panelists about the talk.  I want to stress the question of privacy and the concern, especially in AI because of the huge amount of data just in the algorithm.  The question to you is how does a company light data byte inspect or ensure to the professionals are not misused in various reasons because of the three days, I think we're ‑‑ we really reflected upon how data can be used in order to profile against an individual.  Yeah.

     >> PATRICK NOMMENSEN: I think part of that is transparency, right?  And educating users about what is happening when they use the app.  So this is one thing that we take seriously when it comes to policies, for example, and really clearly outlining what we do when we create an account, when you post content, so forth.  But furthermore, given the options to control (?) (audio skipping) and I think those two things are important.  But you're right, in general, on the Internet, there is a lot of platforms that do use your data in ways that you don't know and how to address this at an international level is a real interesting conversation.

     >> AUDIENCE: Connor Sanchez.  Thanks for doing this today.  A follow‑up question, in terms of the regulatory frameworks that you all operate in, they seem to be ‑‑ I mean, they're changing, you know, as we speak and over the last year, the implementation of GDPR.  I'm interested in just how you ‑‑ how you have been affected by certain regulatory work and how you are anticipating future changes to that and how that impacted your work.

     >> PATRICK NOMMENSEN: Yeah.  That is a great question.  You know, typically GDPR, right, a lot of the principles, if not all of the principles have been around for some time.  The GDPR in many ways is a repackaging of what has existed, plus more information about how to address certain topics, right? 

So for a lot of this, it is nothing new to us, it is at same principles that we have stood by for a long time.  What GDPR brought that wasn't brought before was the mass awareness to the public, right, about what you can expect from Internet and so forth.  So a lot of what we have done is kind of respond to that, right, and say, okay, make it more obvious the users about certain privacy and safety and data settings, so forth.  In terms of effect, I would say that is the biggest thing we have done in response.  ‑‑ in terms of affect.

     >> AUDIENCE: Yes, I'm talking here, in follow‑up to the framework for the developing countries of AI, that your project is developing.  I wonder how the data aspect here ‑‑ especially in relation to data governance, how this framework is formed in this country and other cities around the world that are lacking the infrastructure for processing data or for store data.  And how these places of the world can take advantage of AI, even if they lack the infrastructure, what kind of governance and corporations can be established so it is fair.  This is just to deploy this kind of AI technologies.

   >> CAROLINE JEANMARIE JEANMARIE: Is it the question more about the infrastructure that is necessary or the regulatory framework?

     >> AUDIENCE: (?)

     >> MODERATOR: You have to wait until it is red.

     >> AUDIENCE: I would say both.  I am asking about the framework your company is developing and how it fits infrastructure and regulatory (?)

   >> CAROLINE JEANMARIE JEANMARIE: That is an amazing question, and that is what we're working on.  We're working on enabling industry, both like physical infrastructures that are necessary to gather that and that all is costly.  It is sometimes environmental costs as well.  To make them all environmentally friendly.  So this is something we're exploring.  So (?) (audio skipping) with entities as well as with corporations through Google and other corporations and actually cooperating with countries and in developing places like in the Global South to build infrastructure, it can be done only with the big corporation.  It is an international effort to share prosperity. 

So this is what the infrastructure like the physical one.  For the framework, it is still at the stage of research, but we have a few ideas for that.  And we're working on it, but it is still in the making.  But let's keep in touch because we will be doing this with the World Bank soon.  I will keep you in touch.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much.  Are there any questions from the online community?  No, not so far.  Yes?

     >> AUDIENCE: This is Horace.  I have a question for the panel.  And thanks for mapping out some of the duties and challenges and everyone who contributed from the audience as well.  My question is: The beginning of the panel discussion really, what has happened in 2018, what are we excited about or what are trends for 2019.  This is excellent.  I am wondering, how can we actually track progress?  We identified key challenges, whether it is connectivity or literacy layer or content layer.  There are lots of things we need to work on.  How can we track our progress?  How do we measure it, especially, you know, kind of in this global environment where we have so many players, as you pointed out, many stakeholders working on main of the things in parallel.  How can we become better in somehow developing tricks that help us also to organize ourself and to have some collaboration?  How do we do that?  And we think with big data, we have improved also on our metrics management across both challenges and opportunities.

     >> PATRICK NOMMENSEN: Yes.  It is a great question.  I think, you know, something I see a lot ‑‑ you kind of alluded to this is a lot of players, right, in the industry whether it is private, public or whatever they might be are doing efforts but a lot of them are doing them very individually.  Company A doing this company B is doing this.  NGOA is doing this.  What needs to happen and we see this in the NGO space, right?  So many NGOs, which is great, but there is the ability of cooperation.  So working closely with others in the local market or whatever it might be.  Partnering with them and enabling them is perhaps a more global approach.  Everyone trying to do similar things in the same space.  That would also enable better collecting of data measurements, improvements, tracking progress over time, because there is one or at least ‑‑ there will never be one, right?  A lesser number of (?) (audio skipping) in that particular issue.

     >> MODERATOR: That is a great idea.  And good to work on that and see whether we are advancing or not.  ‑‑

    >> CAROLINE JEANMARIE: A few things come to mind when we discuss what is being done.  It is understanding that NYU is working on a way to measure algorithmic biases and notably for public organizations.  So it is called algorithmic impact measurements.  It is like a similar word.  This is a good way to measure this kind of ethical and public progress. 

And a few labels are emerging.  They're still in the making for AI and ethics and (?).  So we need to improve and work on them.  And I think the environmental factor gives us a lot of possibilities of inspiration.  So a lot of environmental measurements like the comeback.  The global come back are ways of measuring very different affects of environmental progress.  The water, energy, savings.  So if we have a similar label, similar way of looking at things for companies, that would be very interesting, so to work with where we have incentives to be able and we have reputation costs, if we are not making progress.  That seems like a self‑love approach that is mystery and interesting to explore.

     >> MODERATOR: Stephen, in case you are still here, the question is how do we track or measure progress.  If you have something.  Otherwise, maybe the last question from our panelist from this side.  What do you wish I mean everyone is focused on the positive side and positive applications.  What is one area that you feel (audio skipping) that you can tackle yourself and from our colleagues here in the room, might address moving forward. 

Stephen, if you can hear us, at any point, feel free to speak up.


     >> MODERATOR: Perfect.  Stephen how do you measure or track progress.

     >> STEPHEN MAWUTOR DONKOR: I think Caroline and Patrick, if I got the names right have done excellent answering the questions.  They're coming through.  In Ghana, one of the things to say is we have different organizations.  And in Ghana, we have noticed that most people, we have different people that are experiencing the same problem, like absolutely.  So we (?) what it is, that some organizations have done, there are organizational changes (?) where it is applicable.  And so we will look at one of them, open data platforms.  They're not (?) and most of the other organizations that are going to solve them with the same agenda.  So it is a key point of view, it is a driving force that is an impact.  We will be able to practice (audio skipping) otherwise there is a policy that is (?).  This is

(Audio skipping too much to understand)

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much.  So maybe since we're already at the time of the end.  What do you hope others will focus on that you yourself cannot?

   >> CAROLINE JEANMARIE JEANMARIE: Build more trust, and there is a newsletter that I recommend it is by Jeff Redding, out of Oxford.  Jeff Redding, he's on AI.  It has translation from Chinese. 

     >> PATRICK NOMMENSEN: I will quickly say, I think in one word, it is education.  You know, we think education in the context of the developing world, right?  But it is really also a challenge in the developed world.  Regardless of the age, regardless of what devices you have and have access to and so forth, there is always more to learn about, making yourself safe and using technologies better.  So I would sum it up in education.

     >> MODERATOR: Thank you so much.  Stephen, if you can still hear us, what is one thing you wish the people here in the audience would focus on here that you can't yourself?  Well, maybe you can share it via tweet with us using the hashtag IGF2018. 

Okay.  So thank you so, so much for staying with us for this hour.  Day 3 of IGF.  We are deeply grateful that you all came to this session and contributed to it.  So again, thank you from my side and yeah.  Enjoy the rest of the day.  Thank you so much.