The following are the outputs of the real-time captioning taken during the virtual Fifteenth Annual Meeting of the Internet Governance Forum (IGF), from 2 to 17 November 2020. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid to understanding the proceedings at the event, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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>> ELEANOR AFFUL: Welcome, everyone, once again. My duty as your host is to ensure that you have signed with the platform and to introduce you briefly, we will be using most of the time the Q&A for questions and answer as well as the chat window in case we have any issues to address. I wish you have a fruitful discussion this morning or this after nan. Thank you.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Thank you very much.
We'll just wait a couple more minutes. Usually when we host meetings, we start at 2 minutes past the hour just to give people a chance to log on. Sometimes the software is a bit slow, so we'll start at 2 minutes past.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Can somebody please make Anja Gengo a panelist?
>> Please, who?
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Gengo. I'll type it into the chat.
>> Okay, please do. Anything.
>> ELEANOR AFFUL: I think it has been added already.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: No, I don't see her. I don't see her there. She's in the attendees list, AG.
>> ELEANOR AFFUL: Gengo?
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes.
>> ELEANOR AFFUL: GENGO?
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes.
>> ELEANOR AFFUL: Okay.
Anja.
>> ELEANOR AFFUL: Okay, done.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: All right. Thank you very much.
>> ELEANOR AFFUL: You're welcome.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Sorry, not yet.
>> ELEANOR AFFUL: Oh, okay.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Luis, if you could help.
Okay, great, then.
And it is 2 minutes past and I think the numbers are quite steady now, so I think we will start.
And, well, thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen, for joining our orientation, and newcomers session. My name is Chengetai Masango, and I'm in charge of the IGF Secretariat, and with me I have our Chair, Anriette Esterhuysen, and Anja Gengo as well, who is our focal point for National, Regional and youth initiatives at the Secretariat.
Before I start, according to the agenda, it's a welcome so I think I'll just say a very brief welcome so I'll hand it over to Anriette.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks very much, Chengetai. I'm trying to use the IGF virtual background but it looks like it's not really working, but welcome, everyone. If this really is your first IGF, please prepare yourself for a great adventure. The IGF is not an easy forum to feel part of, but once you do feel part of it, it's something that you look forward to every year, and you'll find yourself wanting to participate in some of the National/Regional initiatives, Youth IGF initiatives and so on. So my name is Anriette Esterhuysen, for those of you that don't know me.
I am the, I'll switch on my video even though it's a bit scrambled, and I'm currently the Chair of the Internet governance Forum's Multistakeholder Advisory Group, and I think, Chengetai, we'll probably come to that in the agenda. We'll tell you a bit more about the MAG, about how the IGF works and who organized the IGF but most of all I really would like everyone to ask questions. There's no better way of us making this orientation session relevant to you than for us to be able to respond to your specific questions.
And, Chengetai, is it possible for you to share the agenda even if it's just in the chat?
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes, I'll copy and paste it in the chat. Oops.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: While Chengetai does that everyone, and you can ‑‑ you have different ways of asking questions. You can type a question in the chat, or you could type a question in the Q&A. And by just clicking on those at the bottom of your screen, and I dearly would also like you to speak should you need to speak. I see actually there's some old timers here, aside from myself and Chengetai and his team we have several members of the MAG, the Multistakeholder Advisory Group, who are also able to address your questions. So, Chengetai, back to you for the brief historical overview.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Okay. Thank you very much, Anriette. So I'll be very brief, because I do assume that most of you do know about the IGF, and if you have any questions, please feel free to ask at the IGF. We do prefer people to ask questions, and then we can expand on that instead of just telling you a whole lot of stuff that you may or may not be interested in.
But very briefly, the IGF is one of the outcomes of the World Summit on the Information Society, and the world submit on the Information Society was in two phases. There was the Geneva phase in 2003 and the Tunis phase in 2005. So during the Geneva phase in 2003, there was a whole lot of discussion about Internet Governance and while they were discussing Internet Governance, they didn't really have a definition of what Internet Governance is or what Internet Governance should be so as the UN and the UN always does is that it formed a Working Group so this was the Working Group on Internet Governance, which was to operate between the Geneva and Tunis Summit and submit a report in the Tunis Summit on the definition of what Internet Governance was.
So they did come up with a definition, and it was really a multistakeholder effort, and the definition that they came up was that Internet Governance is the development and application of shared principles, norms, rules, and decision‑making processes and programs that shape the evolution and use of the Internet. So that's just the short version of the definition of Internet Governance.
And also with the WGIG report, Working Group on Internet Governance, they produced some models of how to go forth, and that model and one of those models, the model that was chosen of course, was they asked the Secretary‑General to, as you can see here, in paragraph 72 of the Tunis Agenda, we asked the United Nations Secretary‑General in an open and inclusive process, to convene, by the second quarter of 2006, a meeting of the new Forum for multistakeholder policy dialogue called the Internet Governance Forum, so the Internet Governance Forum was born then, and this is just a whole brief of the IGF mandate in Paragraph 72. Interface with appropriate intergovernmental organizations and other institutions on matters under their purview. Facilitate the exchange of information and best practices in this regard to make full use of the expertise from the academic, scientific and technical communities.
So you can read it on the IGF website underneath the "about," or go to the ITU website under the WSIS Forum and you can see the full mandate for the IGF.
Now, the unique thing about the IGF at that time that it was fully multistakeholder, all stakeholders would operate on equal footing. Now, these stakeholders is the Government, Civil Society, technical community, IGOs and private sector, and they would operate under an equal fatting to discuss matters dealing with Public Policy issues dealing with Internet Governance.
And 97 Governments, Heads of State, in Tunis in 2005 approved this mandate, so we had our first mandate and it was for 5 years, and the IGF mandate has been renewed three times: In 2010 and 2015, and in 2015, it was renewed for 10 years until 2025.
Now, just before I leave this part, I think the most important part there is that the mandate of the IGF is the Forum to discuss Public Policy issues related to key el meant of Internet Governance in order to foster the sustainability, robustness, security, stability and development of the Internet.
The Internet Governance is not just the meeting, it's not just the Forum that happens once a year. We have intersessional activities and there are intersessional activities which I'll leave our Chair to go through, because the MAG is in charge of the meeting, formulating agenda of the meeting, and also some of the intersessional activities, and there's also the National/Regional initiatives that came up which my colleague Anja Gengo will speak about just now and the Secretary‑General also formed the Multistakeholder Advisory Group. Now, the Multistakeholder Advisory Group is currently made up of 50 members from all the 5 stakeholder groups, from all the 5 regions and the 5 regions is Africa, Asia, WEOG, that's the Western and Other Group, which includes former Western Europe, Canada, the U.S., New Zealand, and Australia. The South America and the Caribbean Region, and the Asia Pacific Region is considered as one Region except for Australia and New Zealand, as I have mentioned.
Now, apart from the MAG, we have the Secretariat which is based in Geneva, and the Secretariat reports to the United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs, and that is our home institution. The Secretary‑General asked the DESA, the United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs to provide the institutional home, so they run the trust fund, the contractual space in which the IGF Secretariat runs in.
But I should really underline that the IGF is a bottom‑up, multistakeholder initiative and it was one of the first of its kind.
The IGF has had several meetings. We ‑‑ this is our 15th IGF. It's virtual because of the current situation, but we try and go through the various regions, so we first of all we started off in Greece, in Athens and then we went to Brazil in 2007, then India, Egypt, Lithuania, Kenya, Nairobi in 2011, Azerbaijan in 2012, all the way and then last year we had it in Germany, and next year, which was supposed to be this year, but we moved it to next year, we're going to have it in Poland, and the year after that it's going to be in Ethiopia and after that, it is going to be in Japan.
Now, that is with the IGF. One other thing I would like to mention is that the IGF is extra‑budgetary. It means we don't get any money whatsoever from the UN budget. We may get indirect support, as we get indirect support from UNDESA, which does get some money from the UN budget, but everything else that we do is based on donations outside of the UN budget so it is direct donations to the IGF trust fund and the IGF trust fund of course is managed by UNDESA.
Now, some of our donors include, we've got Governments. I think Government of Finland is our strongest donor, and then we have the Government of the Netherlands, the Swiss Government, the German Government, of course, and those are our top donors as far as the Government is concerned but since we're multistakeholder, we do have donations from other institutions, like from the private Sector we have donations from Verizon, Disney, Amazon, Google is a very strong donor for the IGF, and as far as the technical community is concerned, ISOC, ICANN, the NROs, et cetera, and then for the rest, Civil Society, et cetera, we do get donations that are directed through the IGF SA and the IGF SA, it's the IGF Support Association which was really formed as a way to help the IGF get more money since in the UN we really can't process small donations, like, $20 or $100 or even $500, which are very difficult to donate singly to the United Nations, so the IGF Support Association was formed and people can make small donations to them and they aggregate all those donations. They give part of it to the IGF trust fund and the rest they support the National and Regional initiatives that we have.
For this meeting, I will think, I will just leave it to Anriette to just give an overview of how this meeting was formed, and also how the main theme, et cetera, was formed and then I'll come back and give an overview of the High‑Level Leader tracks and Parliamentary tracks, so over to you, Anriette.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thank you, Chengetai. So I'm going to be quick because I actually want to respond to questions so this year the IGF MAGs, the Multistakeholder Advisory Group developed the thematic content of the IGF based on I would say two things broadly. The first one was reflecting and evaluating the 2019 IGF and in 2019, there were only three thematic tracks and people thought very positive about that. They felt that the IGF was more focused. It was easier to follow. It was easier to decide what to attend.
And the three tracks in 2019 were: Data, trust, and inclusion. They weren't called ‑‑ they had slightly longer names but those were the primary topics, but then the MAG as it always does put out a call to anyone. We refer to this as the IGF Community. It's not necessarily a cohesive community, but anyone who cares about the IGF, or who's interested in providing input, and it's a completely open process.
So the MAG put out a call for input, and based on that, the MAG received on the one hand validation. People felt that these themes continue to be relevant, and should be part of the IGF 2020 program. But we also got some new suggestions, and the one that had the most support was the idea of the environment, or climate change, to look at the Internet policy related challenges around environmental sustainability and climate change and that's how we ended up with this thematic structure based on four themes: Data, environment, inclusion, and trust.
To find out more about what thinking is behind these themes, I really recommend that you look at a document called the Guide to IGF Themes and Issues, and maybe, Chengetai or Anja, you can post that in the chat.
This Guide, it's a document but it's actually very accessible document, and it will tell you more about, what do we mean by data? Why is data important? What did the session organizers, in other words the people who proposed the sessions, what did they have in mind when they proposed workshops that they associated with the theme on data, and so on.
So I won't say very much more about that because I think it's good that you look at the program itself, and also at the Guide. I guess very broadly, data has to do with this proliferation of data that the Internet gives rise to, and how that can be governed, regulated, to maximize opportunities, but also to protect rights.
Similarly, trust has to do with security, with safety, with trust in what we access on the Internet and how we connect to the Internet. Inclusion is really about making the Internet accessible to everyone, no matter what their abilities or disabilities are, where they live, and what level of connectivity they have.
And also particularly to make the Internet inclusive of the diversity that there is in the world.
And then environment is new, and you'll see that we are exploring various aspects of the impact of the Internet, the impact of digitization on the environment, but also how we can use the Internet to achieve more resilience in the light of climate change but other MAG members can say more.
So the way that the IGF works is that the MAG decides what the overall themes are, and then they put out an open call for session proposals and this is extremely important. I know not everyone in this meeting are newcomers and I'm sure there are people in the room who have submitted a proposal to the IGF and who's been rejected, but it's a very challenging task for the MAG. They get hundreds of session proposals that they have to review, and they apply certain criteria in reviewing these proposals and that criteria is transparent so I think for you as newcomers or anyone who would like to know more about how to participate in the IGF, it can be intimidating but my advice to you really is not to be intimidated, because the most effective way of actually getting a handle on the IGF and grasping what the IGF is about is to use it to organize a session because that's where the real power of the IGF lies.
Once you are inside the process, once you organize a workshop or organize an open Forum, there are different modalities. You'll find them on the website. That is when you actually are not just a participant, you actually become someone that shapes the event and that shapes the content that's discussed and that also shapes the outcomes.
So I'm going to stop there and I really would like people to ask questions, and I can say more and we have several MAG members hear who have a much closer sense of those themes than I have, because they are the ones that read all the proposals and reviewed them and actually built the program based on those proposals so let's just pause a little bit before we proceed and see if there are any hands or any questions. I'll just checking the chat and checking the Q&A. I don't see any questions. Does no one have any questions at this point? You can just tell us that you want to speak in the chat.
No, I don't see anyone. I think, then, I'll stop there. Maybe what I'll do though is just to highlight that aside from these themes that the program is built on, the IGF has many ‑‑ there are other opportunities. There are networking sessions. There are different types of sessions. There are workshops. The workshops are the ones I referred to that are self‑organized. There are main sessions and usually, and that's the case again this year, there's one main session on each of the four main themes, and the MAG organizes those main sessions.
They usually are bigger. They tend to have high‑level speakers, and they're a different type of session. That doesn't mean you can't participate in them but workshops are usually more smaller and more intimate and more dynamic. They're also different. There are the open Forums and those are usually when an institution wants to share its work or tell the world more about it. There will also be book launches and launches of research. There will be pre‑events such as what we have this week. So this week is all about pre‑events. For example the GigaNet, the academic network where you have young scholars and older scholars coming together to present their work and then this is a virtual IGF so it's very different. You might not have the same opportunity of meeting new people but at a face‑to‑face IGF, you will usually meet people that might become colleagues or collaborators, people that you could share project ideas with. You might be able to meet somebody from your country that you've never met before, someone from a Government or a business that is actively investing in for example building internet infrastructure in your Region and really ‑‑ Internet infrastructure in your Region and that's where it lies in the unexpected and often unintended connections so I urge you even though this is a virtual IGF to look at who niece the room. Don't be shy about emailing people. You can contact them using the interactive schedule, tell them you'd like to chat or you'd like to find out more about what they're doing because that's a very powerful component of the IGF. Chengetai?
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes, thank you. I think we'll now just go to the next item. I think Anja is going to present what to expect from the two weeks, just a navigational guide to the program.
>> ANJA GENGO: Thank you, Chengetai and hello to everyone thank you for attending this session. Welcome to the IGF first week, as Chengetai and Anriette said it can be overwhelming to attend the IGF regardless if it's in person or online first time as this year only because there are over 200 different sessions. There are different types of sessions in addition to the very complex topics they're covering. There are multistakeholder compositions and organizers and speakers so it takes some time to devote to study the overall schedule of the IGF and to understand how to navigate yourself through the next over two weeks of intensive discussions that are going over 6, 7 hours a day.
So let me just quickly tell you maybe from the perspective of still my fresh memory as a newcomer but then as a person as well that spent quite some time on all these documents that you're seeing now especially the schedule and other input documents. What's very important is first of all, on a technical side to understand how to connect to each session, and we do understand that it's not quite straightforward, that it takes a little bit of time. It takes time to devote to understanding, to go through a couple of steps which is why the IGF Secretariat has produced a very simple and detailed guide, basically a step by step guide: How do you connect to each session? How do you access to the Zoom session?
You can find that guide on a couple of locations on our website so there's the IGF website that as you know if you go to the new Section, you go to the Section, you will see basically in the news, the first item you see is how to connect to the IGF to the sessions and I'm pasting that link in the chat.
So it's important to register. It's important to build your personal schedule. I think that's the key word of this meeting, personal schedule because when you build your personal schedule that is your personalized space and that is where you get your personalized unique Zoom link to join sessions like this. In addition to that, it's very important to look at the schedule and to understand the color‑coding of the schedule.
As colleagues said before me, the IGF is basically divided into two phases. The first phase contains a couple of types of sessions, goes until the end of this week so we have a number of pre‑events there. Open forums, which are sessions that are reserved for Treaty‑based international organizations and Governments, and we have NRI sessions which I'll come very soon. Sessions that are organized by the Dynamic Coalitions which is part of our intersessional work.
Types of sessions are also explained at the IGF website but essentially, I think what's important for you to know is that each session is really multistakeholder in its nature and discusses the Internet Governance, different topics within the four thematic tracks.
I mentioned the color coding of the schedule. Even the first week when you look at the schedule you'll notice basically four key colors. They correspond to the thematic tracks that Anriette mentioned. You can filter the schedule per thematic track, per tape of session, of course per day, so depending how much time you have to devote but that's something that helps navigate the schedule.
Next week is probably going to be a little bit even more complex than this one, only because we have a couple of tracks there actually we can say two tracks so in addition to the workshops, there are 85 workshops in our schedule, focused on four thematic tracks. There's also a number of sessions that are facilitated within the high‑level leaders track. I believe Chengetai will come to this track so is I won't be speaking about the details of those tracks but I will speak about the logistics.
So of course the high‑level track includes the prominent experts and leadership from all stakeholder groups. If you go to the IGF 2020 meeting page and I'm going to paste the link now in the chat quickly, that's the page where all information is basically gathered in one place and probably the easiest place to find what you're trying to find regarding the IGF 2020.
If you scroll toward the end of that page, then you can see some of the participants of the high‑level leaders track. If you'll click on more, you can see almost everyone. We are still uploading the biographies from the high‑level participants as we receive them but we do expect that will be finalized very, very soon, probably tomorrow but you can see and have a sense about the profiles of speakers that are involved there, and also about the titles of the sessions.
Logistically speaking, that's a very important question that I received today during the networking session for the session organizers, is that the high‑level track sessions and the main sessions will be interpreted to 6 UN languages, and it's quite simple. You just need to basically choose the channel in Zoom. I think it's located in the bottom left corner of this display that you have now in front of yourself, and you can choose to listen in or to speak in any of the 6 official UN languages.
Transcripts are available on the IGF website shortly after the sessions are concluded, most definitely the next day. The same is with the recording of the youth group. You can also broadcast live, watch the live broadcast of all the sessions. All sessions including the pre‑events these that we're having today and tomorrow, are streamed live on our YouTube account. Main sessions and sessions of the high‑level leaders track are also going to be streamed through UN Web TV.
The IGF 2020 meeting page contains a very visible link to the streaming platforms, so you can follow that. Anriette mentioned to watch the schedule for several networking sessions. This is a work in progress because the community is submitting requests to host a couple of networking formal social events but I do believe that today we'll have the majority of the program finalized in that regard. So that's quite a good spaces specially if you're new in this space to network and meet other colleagues. There will be focused networking sessions which will allow you to meet more closely for example the MAG Chair, the members of the MAG, the IGF Secretariat, to meet and learn more about intersessional work, to meet the teams of people that are standing behind the outputs of the intersessional work such as the Dynamic Coalitions so all in all quite a lot of work for you as users and participants but if you go to the meeting page, I think that's the key really to find your space and especially to build your personal schedule as I said at the beginning.
So I'll stop here, Chengetai, I'm sure I said too much probably.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: No, no, thank you very much. That was great. Now very quickly we'll have Luis Bobo. He is our technical person in the IGF Secretariat and he will just tell us very quickly how to connect to each session, and what to do if you face a technical issue.
>> LUIS BOBO: Hello, thank you, Chengetai. I am basically, yeah, I think Anja explained it very well. There is a guide at the top of the IGF website which says how to connect to the sessions. It's a very good, very visual guide, and basically the idea as Anja said is that you create your schedule, so you can navigate each session and each session at the top right corner, you can add the session to your schedule, so like that, you are building your participation in the IGF.
Then from any of these session places at all times, you can access your schedule, your own schedule, and then it's there where you can find all the links to access the sessions, okay? Those are personalized. You click on the link and you get your own personal link to connect to the sessions, and also your email.
The last point is that you can also in each session download the calendar just to get the remainder for the session, or even in the email you can also get your calendar reminder so as not to forget and I think that's all from my side. Thank you, Chengetai.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Thank you very much, and Anja has just put into the chat the email address that you can use if you have any technical issues, and we also have a Help Desk function on the IGF website so you can click that and just type, if you have a technical issue. And we'll respond very, very quickly for your issues.
Now, let me just talk very quickly about the high‑level leaders track. As Anriette has said, we mostly like questions and discussions on any topic so I'll just go very quickly on the high‑level leaders track. So this year's High‑Level Leaders track, and we've had these High‑Level Leaders track since I think it was the IGF 2011 in Nairobi so the theme or this year's High‑Level Leaders track is: Internet Governance in the Age of Uncertainty so we are looking at Internet Governance and good Public Policy and what are the pitfalls and how do you shape good Public Policy in situations such as the COVID‑19 pandemic but not limited to the COVID‑19 pandemic. It's any emergencies like natural disasters, hurricanes, the whole thing because we do hope that what we're experiencing now is just a singular event and of course will not be repeated but we will find some situations more localized that of course we need to react to and be prepared for.
So the High‑Level Leaders track has got five tracks. So we're going to be looking at social development implications and things like the digital divide, inclusion, how to get those people who don't have access and those people who may be left behind and severely disadvantaged because they don't have access to Internet and Internet tools.
We're going to look at the health implications, which would range from data, how do people store your data, this tracing, et cetera.
Economic implications. As you know, as I'm sure you've all experienced now, more and more of the economic interactions have been accelerated by the current situation we're in, and we're talking about e‑Banking, work, e‑Work, telework, et cetera.
Then environmental implications, as I think Anriette mentioned, that this is a new track, and we're going to be looking at environmental implications, everything from green ICTs and also looking at how do we share data among ourselves, how do we share data globally so we can take advantage and look after our planet as well. And then security implications.
And as Anja already has mentioned, that we have a whole range of speakers, from Civil Society. We have like Ms. Chatza from ACT. From the technical community, we hear from ICANN, we hear from the United Nations, of course. We have the Secretary‑General of UNCTAD. We have Ms. Inger Andersen, the Executive Director of the United Nations Environment Program, and Ms. Izumi Nakamitsu, who is the Under‑Secretary‑General for Disarmament. We have economists like Jeffrey Sachs, I'm sure you know him. We have Vint Cerf. We are very glad that he's here, as well, and he's going to be online and interacting with us. We have a speaker from the Vatican, the Secretary of the Pontifical Council for Culture, so we have a whole range of leaders, Ministers, from all the regions, and so I think it's going to be a very balanced panel. We have also youth. We have youth from 15 years old in the opening and we also have youth presented in the closing as well so we have from all Sectors, from all ranges, in the High‑Level Leaders panel. You don't have to be old and gray‑haired to be a leader. The other thing I'd like to mention is we have the Parliamentary roundtable which is in cooperation with the interparliamentary Union and the theme or the title of this Parliamentary roundtable is: Building trust in a time of COVID‑19 response and post‑COVID‑19 recovery. And that's on the 10th of November, 17:00 to 18:30 hours, so we invite all Parliamentarians, legislators, to please take part in that.
This is a continuation of what we had in Berlin, and after the Berlin we had the Jimmy Schulz Call and with the Parliamentarians they're also going to have an output, a message to other Parliamentarians and that brings me to the, our outputs of I'll just go very, very quickly over the outputs and I think Anriette as well is going to also add because we've worked quite hard with the MAG and also with UNDESA, looking at these outputs, and also trying to respond to what we've had from CSTD, recommendations for improvement, from the Secretary‑General's road map for digital cooperation as well, paragraph 93, and it also lists IGF outputs, so we're going to be having outputs from the sessions, key messages. I've mentioned the Parliamentary track.
We're going to have also outputs and key messages from the High‑Level Leaders track and a message from the IGF Youth to the youth, and we are going to also try and introduce these voluntary commitments, where people can make a voluntary commitment of some action that they're going to be doing during the course of the 2021 cycle, and these are all voluntary commitments, and you can or you cannot. It's totally up to you.
There's a Forum on the IGF website, as well, where people can put in these voluntary commitments and you may refer to them again in the 2021 IGF. It's totally up to you, but we think that it is good to have a really action‑oriented IGF. The outputs, as well, will have suggestions for next steps, so it's not just going to be, oh, this is what we did in 2021, this is what we did at the IGF in 2020, full stop. Let's start again next year on something else. No, we're carrying it on, and we have to carry this on not just next year, but the year after that, and the year after that.
And this also includes with our Youth Program. We listened very well and very hard to the youth, and last year when we had our open mic session there was a very clear and strong message from the youth that they do want to get more involved in the IGF, and I think this year, we have responded.
Okay, and with that focus on youth, I'll have ‑‑ I'll give the floor back to Anja.
>> ANJA GENGO: Thank you very much, Chengetai. Yes, basically what Chengetai said, we are among other matters focusing very much on youth. There's a Youth Summit where we're having a number of young people from the Youth IGFs from all parts of the world speaking on three important topics that they have set as priority, which relates to the digital divide, virtual education and capacity development and hopefully the Summit will also welcome Senior stakeholders that can have a direct exchange with young people. Through the flash sessions you can see a number of them in the schedule, we have and we're very grateful for that support from many excellent organizations from Senior stakeholders and leaderships of these where within 30 minutes they will facilitate an open, interactive direct dialogue with young people, and moderated by young people, as well, which also hopefully will give visibility to the good worth the Youth IGFs are doing.
With that, Chengetai, if you agree, there were a couple of questions in the chat. Perhaps we could quickly go through those.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes, please, yes. I'm all about the questions, yes.
>> ANJA GENGO: A couple of participants asked, and it's a very good question, about the when the Zoom links will be available given the different time zones and challenges so Luis may correct me but the links are available one day before the scheduled time of the session, but nothing prevents you and we really strongly advise you do that, nothing prevents you to build in advance your personal schedule and just before the session to go to your personal schedule, click on the activation link, and go straight to your session.
For the question on what do we expect from newcomers, Anriette or Chengetai if you want maybe to respond to this question, perhaps it would be better than me.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes. I mean, okay, I'll start first. You, as a youth, you as a newcomer here, we expect you to engage. We expect you to find what you're interested in, sessions that you're interested in. We expect you to ask questions, because people learn from questions that are asked, so it's not just you learning. We are learning together, as well, with the questions that you ask.
And also to share your experiences in whichever session that you're in, because you have some experiences that are unique to you, or you can look at them from a totally different perspective than other people do, because sometimes ‑‑ and it is very, very important, because some of us have been talking about these issues for the past 15 years, and if somebody comes in Year 1, this is their first year, they've got some insights that we have totally missed, so please, do not feel scared to intervene or to talk. That's how we learn together. That's how we make the Internet stronger by the questions, and also by sharing our experiences and best practices and not just best practices, but also practices that didn't work so well. Thank you.
I don't know if Anriette wants to say something.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Hi, Chengetai. Actually, I see one of the MAG members, Sylvia Cadena has also posted. So Sylvia, why don't you add in response to that question?
>> ANJA GENGO: Sorry, I think the host needs to unmute Sylvia if she will take the floor. Let me see if I can do that.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: One thing I want to say while we unmute Sylvia is if this really is your first IGF, be prepared to find it overwhelming and commit to attending again. It's actually part of the experience is to go through that process where it is very overwhelming, it's hard to decide what to follow. You can either follow randomly and attend sessions that look interesting, or you can be more structured, really study the program but either way, it can be difficult but Sylvia you had some good suggestions in the chat. Why don't you ask them.
>> Thanks, Anriette. My suggestions were the same ones Chengetai just said about just engage, ask your questions, say hello when you join the chat. That might start the conversation and help others to feel comfortable in the sessions that you are. We make the IGF what we want IGF to be so it's your IGF so make it as interactive and engaging and productive for you as you can possibly do. And enjoy it.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Your voice is legitimate, and that's the important thing. The IGF is not just for experts. It's for everybody and if somebody is using language or terminology or acronyms or jargon that they don't explain, point it out to them. Just write in the chat, you know: Please stop using jargon. And it's very important. Newcomers have a way of seeing the IGF with fresh eyes, and you notice things that those of us that have been coming for years don't notice.
So speak out, participate, complain, ask questions. I agree with all of those points.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: I've seen some from Indonesia, there's some technical questions. I would suggest that you do send an email to the email address that Anja put into the chat. She's going to put it in again and you'll get a very quick answer. I mean, I've been monitoring the ‑‑ that mailbox, and the turn‑around time is really quick, so you'll get your answer then.
Thank you.
And I'm just reading to see if there's anything else that...
Yes.
Do we have any other questions? Or a topic that we've totally missed out? While we're waiting for a question, and I will ask Anja, please, just point out if a question has come back in.
We did not really explain to you the format, so I'm just going to go through the different type of workshop formats that we have, until we get some questions, and as I said, I trust that Anja is just going to interrupt me.
So we've got 86 workshops, as our Chair Anriette has said. These workshops come from the stakeholders and they were submitted and the MAG evaluated them and those were chosen and 86 of them were chosen. We have open forums. Now, open forums are sessions that are given to Governments or Treaty‑based organizations, and also ICANN and ISOC which aren't really Treaty based organizations but due to their standing in the Internet Community, we do give them open forums and they can showcase or tell the stakeholders activities that they've done during the previous year or things that they're planning in the next year and it could be book launches, could be reports, it could be anything.
National and regional initiatives, I think we've already come across and explained those. Anja has done a good job explaining those. Pre‑events. As we said, pre‑events are events that are very important but may not quite fit into the IGF's formal schedule, and these are things, as Anriette has said, like the GigaNet, the Symposium for academics, and any other things, but of course they have to be related to the subject, the broad subject matter, which is Internet Governance.
We have the main sessions, which are mainly based on the themes, and we've also got a main session on digital cooperation, and also on COVID‑19.
We have the High‑Level Leaders' tracks which I've just explained. We have Dynamic Coalitions. Now, these Dynamic Coalitions are groupings of three or more stakeholders that come together to discuss issues of Internet, so it could be somebody from the private Sector, a company, a Civil Society organization and then intergovernmental organization coming together. These are the Dynamic Coalitions that we have. Dynamic Coalition on network neutrality. Sustainability of journalism and new media, so I mean, they're all a wide range. We do not prescribe them. They just have to meet certain criteria, which is 3 or more stakeholder groups.
They have to submit a report every single year, a report, and we do have coordination calls that happen periodically, once a month or once every fortnight and as I said, they cover a whole range of topics, as you can see there.
We did mention about the Best Practice Forums, and these are Best Practice Forums and these are charted by approved by the MAG, and they produce a report at the end of the year, and we do assign them a consultant, and it could be Best Practice Forum on gender and access, for instance, and we want to provide a convening of best practices and best practices as I said it's not just good practices but also practices that may not have worked that well and the reasons why those practices have not worked, that as well as just the hope to bootstrap people who may be facing similar situations and may not know which way to go. They can read the report and get an idea of which direction to set out on.
I don't think we've had an explanation of the social networking breaks. Anriette, would you want to explain the social networking breaks, if you're still there?
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Actually I think Anja did mention them, so, Anja, I don't know if you wanted me to add but this is an example of how overwhelming it is. Just look at your agenda, and you'll see there are different types of breaks, and tomorrow, there will be a break, maybe Anja can tell us what time it is, but it will be like a coffee break, where we all go into one room, or tea, depending on your culture, and we break into different breakout rooms according to what language we want to have coffee in and the idea is not really just force everyone to always speak in English, to have some informal discussion with other participants in your language.
And also just to demonstrate how much diversity there is in the IGF, so I'm going to facilitate that. Please come to that session. We'll see if it works. It's an experiment and there will be one next week as well. But have a look. There's other Regional, for example there's a European get‑together, there are networking breaks that deal with particular problems or processes.
There's one on Internet Society, for example, so just look in your schedule for the networking sessions and find something that you can participate in. And they're completely informal, so you can just participate and speak. You don't have to feel that you are prepared or familiar with the issue. They're just there for us to interact more with one another.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Thank you very much, Anriette.
>> ANJA GENGO: Maybe, Chengetai, if you allow just to come in with one actually question that came a few minutes ago but we still didn't address it from one participant asking if all sessions are hosted in this format and can non‑panelists speak?
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes. The IGF is about inclusion. The IGF is about hearing other people's ideas, so, and we do encourage that all sessions do have space for questions.
We have done the webinar format but if you do, in the chat, request the floor, like even now, if you just give us your name and we can elevate you and you can ask your question.
For instance, rate now, I see this question from, sorry if I don't pronounce your name properly, but I see this question from Salve Nilsen, but let's see if we can get him to actually speak his question.
>> Hello. Can you guys hear me?
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes, we can.
>> Sweet. This is a completely introductory question. I have been at the IGF before in Geneva, but I'm still looking for a definition for what the IGF, you guys, how you define the word "stakeholder" and "multistakeholder," so that I can bring that home to my own group of interested people to say: This is relevant for us. We should spend more time here, and get some clarity on this question.
How do you ‑‑ what is the formal definition, if you can, for who is considered a stakeholder and what stakeholder means, and please keep it short. I don't want to take much time.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Oh, no, no, thank you for your question. There's no real formal definition of a stakeholder but in the IGF, we group stakeholders into these groups: Government, private sector, Civil Society, technical community, and intergovernmental organizations.
A stakeholder is anybody who has a stake in something, anybody who has a stake in the Internet, so we are looking at users of the Internet, future users of the Internet. People who can be affected in any way by use of the Internet, so even people who don't want to use the Internet, they are stakeholders, because it still affects them and they may be ignoring it but it's still there. We use these groups just for convenience sakes, so that's how we've been using them. Most people can fit in there.
We have had problems that some people can be in different stakeholder groups as well, but usually they're aligned with some form, so we have the technical community that looks after the infrastructure of the Internet, and also the layers, if you see the 7 layers, but part of the technical community can also be part of the private sector, so you do have those intersections. That's why I'm saying that they're not separate and distinct.
But part of the value of the IGF is once you come to the IGF those distinctions do not matter as such. You are here, you are operating as an individual if you so wish. You can speak for your organization if you wish, as well, and it will not be recorded that, hey, you said this in this Forum, et cetera.
We're here for the discourse and conversation but let me hand it over to Anriette or Anja. Maybe they'll be a little bit more clear than I have been.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: I think the point is that it's on the one hand there is no ‑‑ it's a process of debate. And I think the simple answer to your question is that anyone who is affected by the Internet or by not having access to the Internet actually has a stake in Internet policy decision‑making and that's what really matters.
Those groups that Chengetai projected on to the screen, that's one way of looking at stakeholders. Not everyone agrees with that particular grouping. It's in the WSIS documents, the World Summit on the Information Society, and I think what is really being recognized by the IGF now is that those groups are very diverse. Business is not homogenous. Not all businesses have similar interests in Internet Governance. Not all Governments agree with one another and so on.
So I think the point is really: Are you affected by Internet policy, decision‑making, public policies and regulation? If yes, you are a stakeholder to the Internet Governance process, and then there's different ways of looking at it but I think that's the primary starting point. Does it affect you? Does it affect the people you work with? Then you should be at the IGF.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes, mm‑hmm. Thank you very much, Anriette, exactly, yes.
>> Thank you very much.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Just looking out for other questions.
I don't see any other direct questions, but if we don't have questions, we can ‑‑
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Chengetai, I just looked, in the chat, one of our MAG members, Julianna, from Indonesia, is saying that an advantage of the virtual IGF is that newcomers don't have to run from one room to another.
[ Laughter ]
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: True, yes.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: I was thinking about that, as well. If you find this online Forum confusing, the face‑to‑face Forum is actually more confusing and people get lost all the time if we are in a big conference venue, so maybe this year, it will be a little bit easier.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes, yes.
I can talk. I mean, that's ‑‑
>> ANJA GENGO: Apologies, Chengetai. There's a question in the Q&A from Mr. Saito. Mr. Saito if you'd like to take the floor I can unmute you. It's a very good question. Let me try to unmute you. Can you try speaking now?
>> Yes. Can you hear me?
>> ANJA GENGO: Yes, we can.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes, we can.
>> We don't appear with a camera, right? Just a voice at the moment.
>> ANJA GENGO: Just the voice, yes.
>> Okay, good, good, because I attended some other meetings with the ECE and often when participants are a small number we tested before the meeting starts, and so I just realized that some of the equipments fail, and I thought it would be nice to have some separate space we can just check the equipment without disturbing the main discussion here. Would that be possible?
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: So if I get you correctly, you would suggest that we have a virtual room that's open that people can go in and out just to test their equipment?
>> Yes, exactly.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: ‑‑ to see if it's working.
>> Yes, if we do this here, then this introductory session is fine but in the main discussion, I don't want to disturb other people so I just want to go to the other place and check and come back here, if that's possible, that's very convenient.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: That's a very good idea. We'll check with our technical team and see if that is possible. I mean, it will have to be certain times during the day, maybe morning session and an after nan session so it won't be 8 hours. It will maybe just be like an hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon that you can check.
>> Okay. Thank you very much.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: But I'll see.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: I just want to add to that, I think it's a good idea to have such a space but you know, every room you enter is different, so for example, this morning, I was in many different sessions, and in one session, I just couldn't get audio for some reason. I just couldn't hear. I had to reboot my computer.
But it worked well up to that point. Something else I can suggest is that in the chat, you know how in the chat you can click on who you speak to. You can address all panelists, if it's a webinar, all attendees, you can look for one of the hosts, particularly where it says vIGF 2020 co‑host or host and you can ask one of those people, you can say can you see me? So just remember that even in the session while it's taking place, there are people that play a support role and you can ask them for help.
>> Okay, that's wonderful. Thank you very much.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes. That might actually be a better option because I'm sure at the moment the technical people are tearing out their hair and if I give them another task they may ‑‑ but we'll see what we can do. We'll talk to them.
>> Maybe it is easier in the beginning that if somebody says if you have any technical problem, please ask this person or something. During that session.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: That's good.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: That's a very good idea, actually, that moderators, that the organizers can just check, and maybe we can send that to them as a suggestion, that we ask them to check.
And I think Sylvia Cadena, if you can look, she's just posted in the chat that you can test your own Zoom settings on your own, just to check how it looks and if it works, so that's important.
There's someone else who wants to take the floor but, Chengetai, I just wanted to emphasize to everyone, that Zoom Webinar format can be quite intimidating so I really encourage the participants and the organizers to introduce themselves in the chat, and when you use the chat, make sure that you chat not just to participants, that what you type is directed to participants or panelists and attendees, whatever.
So just, it's a bit of an alienating format, the Webinar format, because not everyone can put up their hand and speak but if we use it creatively, it can still be very inclusive.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes. Thank you. Somebody did ask in the room, Alexey, do you want to say your question out? I'll just give you a couple of seconds to see if you can connect. If not, I will just give you the answer.
>> Okay, can you hear me, guys?
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes, we can.
>> Okay. Thank you. I was just wondering if there is an IGF etiquette on when you can speak, when you should not speak? Can you interrupt? Is there, you know, times when you can interrupt and when you should stay silent? What is the proper way of introducing yourself, for example? Or is it okay to omit your affiliation to an organization that you represent because your views may not represent this organization, that kind of stuff.
Thank you.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes, thank you very much. That is actually a very good question. We especially for newcomers online, we do have the IGF Code of Conduct, and basically it just basically gives you the bare bones: Treat all members of the IGF community well, focus discussions on remarks on issues rather than a particular person. No ad hominem attacks, et cetera, because the IGF is about the issues not about who is perpetuating them but the problem is with the issue, well that's not even the problem but the discussion should be around the issue, not a particular entity or individual.
But ‑‑ and we do have several guides. We even also have one guide which was produced by the German Government in cooperation with the IGF and EuroDIG, but just to answer your specific questions and we will make them more ‑‑ well, that's the difficulty because there's a lot of things we want to make more prominent but if we make everything prominent then everything is basically the same.
But, yes, for your ‑‑ yes, when you speak, you should introduce yourself. If you're speaking on ‑‑ if ‑‑ you can introduce yourself with the entity that you represent, if you're representing the entity, and you can also introduce yourself and make it clear that you are speaking in your personal capacity.
As far as when you can ask questions, usually the moderator will say: Now the floor is open for questions, and then will say your name, and then you can speak, so ‑‑ and we don't really encourage interruption. You speak when you are called upon.
I think I'll stop there. We will see how we can make these guides more prominent, maybe put them in a box. I'm not too sure, but, yes, that's something that we should think upon.
Anja, Anriette, would you have something to add there?
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Just, I mean, just to that question, I think the moderators are supposed to open the floor to people to ask questions. I think when they don't, you know, okay, I'm going to be very forward here. I'm going to suggest you give them 30 minutes and if after 30 minutes of speakers, start saying in the chat: When will we be able to ask questions? Put a little bit of bottom‑up pressure on them, because part of the IGF's culture is that we do facilitate participation, that it's not just speakers on the panel.
So even if you feel a little bit shy. Use your instinct, if you think it's time to open the floor then just write something in the chat, put up your hand or say, how long are the speakers going to be speaking before we can ask questions? So it helps the moderators as well because sometimes they themselves are struggling to get their speakers to keep to the time limits and if you as a member of the audience start asking questions it can actually encourage ‑‑ it reminds people that they need to try and be brief.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes, exactly. We do say that the discussion part of any session is the most important, so it's not about giving speeches. It's not about PowerPoint presentations. It's mostly the questions and the discussion which is where the value is. Anja, would you have any other ‑‑
>> ANJA GENGO: I can't see any additional questions from the participants, so maybe whale waiting I would like just to invite all participants to pay attention to the IGF Village. You can if you go to the IGF website, you can see it immediately on the front page.
So for those that are attending the first time the IGF in this online environment, then I am very sorry because the IGF Village is the meeting point at every IGF. It's where we have different organizations organizing booths where they're displaying their Internet Governance related work and it's a very good place to network so this year the IGF Village is organized in the form of a virtual fair I would say. If you go to the IGF website you can find descriptions on each booth under separate page and on 6th and 11th of November I believe around 2:00 but please do check in the schedule, we're going to organize joint tour of the IGF Village together with the booth organizers so you can join us. It's a good opportunity to meet with people one on one to see what they're doing and usually from experience, the IGF Village for many results in some form of cooperation on certain projects and in some good friendships and good new colleagues joining your work areas.
So just wanted to remind of that. Thank you, Chengetai.
>> LUIS BOBO: Sorry to interrupt here. There's a question in the Q&A panel, from Ashwin with technical questions. So yes they said before there is this email address. I am happy to answer or maybe if we have time here I would be happy to answer any technical questions, as well.
I can unmute you. Or, Anja, maybe you can unmute you.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes, so sorry. We have 11 minutes left, so if we don't have any questions then we can answer the ‑‑ Luis, you can answer technical questions.
>> LUIS BOBO: Yes, yes, yes. Ashwin, you're unmuted already.
Is he unmuted, Anja?
>> ANJA GENGO: I don't think so. Sorry, my Zoom is closed.
>> LUIS BOBO: Can you please unmute Ashwin? Or the Host? Some Host can please unmute Ashwin?
In the list of participants.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: I think I may have now.
>> Yes, hello?
>> LUIS BOBO: Hello, Ashwin, thank you. We can hear you now. Let us know please.
>> In Indonesia we have several technical questions actually. First of all, we need to get the contact with the volunteers. Anja has mentioned we have to contact the technical support email, that's number one.
Number two, we want to know whether we can during the 15 minutes of 20 minutes before the time of the open Forum, can we put some videos and so on, videos or something like that?
>> LUIS BOBO: Sure, okay, you will be panelist and you will be able that you can share content and you can share videos including your audio. When you share there is a check box to say, also share my audio. You can share the screen and the audio. Several sessions it's gone very well. If you arrive at the webinar earlier you can check that before it starts, yes.
>> All right.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: I'd just be very careful that please do not share any copyrighted material because then especially YouTube will shut the stream down, and we'll have difficulty bringing it back up.
>> Yes, yes. Chengetai, so sorry, Chengetai, we will put videos about Indonesia using that ‑‑
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Great, yes.
>> It is our own video.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Yes, yes.
>> Thank you to remind me of that.
We would like to know when we get arrange the question and answer, only in the chat. Or it has to be two things, chat and direct via question?
>> LUIS BOBO: Yeah, basically there are two things because the question and answer is basically to control the flow of the session, to control what interventions are already answered, which ones are going to be answered live or if one person simply wants to take the floor so you could just write, please give me the floor, okay?
>> Okay.
>> LUIS BOBO: Basically that's more for social communication because as you don't see directly each other, you can see only out of the session and you can contact with people out of the session in the session description but here in the session like if it were the YouTube chat for example, in which people can comment about the session socially. That's the idea.
>> Okay. Yeah, yeah, thank you. And when will you give us the link?
>> LUIS BOBO: The link, you get it, it's this guide that Anja has shared at the beginning. Otherwise I can share it now. But basically, you add sessions to your schedule and then there is a unique link to go to the ‑‑ to your session, to get the link. And this is the fast guide. It's a very visual guide and basically you add any session to your schedule and then you just go to your schedule to find any links at all times. Okay? So basically you are making your links available as soon as you are adding sessions to your schedule.
>> Okay.
>> LUIS BOBO: The second link is your personal schedule. You have all your links, personal links, to access the sessions there.
>> Okay, so I think that's good and the rest we will send to technical support.
>> LUIS BOBO: Okay. That's me also.
>> This is my first time online IGF meeting, IGF meeting so it's a lot of difficult as first time for online meeting.
>> LUIS BOBO: Thank you, happy to help.
>> Thank you, Anja.
>> Hello. May I just speak again? I'd like to chat with some persons in the meeting and I only see the options "all participants" or, what's the, Moderator and ‑‑ "all panelists and attendees," but is it possible to chat with an individual person or two, three people?
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Not as it's set up now in the webinar format. I don't know if Luis is still available.
>> LUIS BOBO: Yes, thank you. Thanks, Chengetai. In webinar format it is not possible but this is the idea of the webinar format, that it's a unique audience so it's basically you can chat with everyone, so basically the chat is public. You put either your chat someone, just put for example an @ at the beginning. It's like YouTube chat, a general chat and chat only with the panelists. In the meeting sessions we have not enabled it because the idea is that anyone should not be directly contacted if they don't want to be contacted. This is also to avoid any kind of harassment. It's like the general, but anyone that want to be directly contacted they have enabled that and you can contact any participant in the list at any time with that.
>> So also during a session, I understand.
>> LUIS BOBO: No, during the session you can send any chat message. Simply they are transparent and in the public.
>> Yes, I understand.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: I think we should wrap up now. I will just give my final word before I hand it over to our Chair, Anriette, to give her final words.
My final word is: Please look around, join sessions, ask questions. It doesn't matter if you feel that you're a little bit overwhelmed or you don't understand anything, or the acronym soup or the alphabet soup that we use is a bit confusing. You'll get to know it and ask them to explain and they should. This is our mandate as well, capacity building so please feel free and if you have any questions please feel free to contact any of us and we will try and respond as quickly as possible. So thank you and I hand it over to Anriette to close.
>> ANRIETTE ESTERHUYSEN: Thanks, Chengetai. I have nothing to add actually. I think it's a learning process. I think just remember, if you don't take risks, if you don't ask questions, if you don't speak, you're not really going to learn about it so just don't be shy. Your voices are all legitimate and valid. In fact that's why the IGF is convened, to bring new people into the process every year so I just want to encourage you all to participate, and thanks very much for coming to this session and thanks to all the MAG members who are present. I hope you manage to see their names. You can also find the MAG members' names on the IGF website.
Look for them. If you see them as speakers, approach them, ask questions. And even though you cannot send individual chat to somebody in a webinar mode, you can when there's a meeting but you can still send the chat to everyone and say: Attention, for Anriette, for example so there's still ways of just reaching out to people.
So thanks very much, everyone, and I really wish you a productive IGF.
Goodbye.
>> CHENGETAI MASANGO: Goodbye, and thank you.
>> LUIS BOBO: Thank you all, bye.
>> ANJA GENGO: Bye, thank you.