The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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>> VERENA WEBER: So, I am pleased to start this workshop on Financing Broadband Networks of the Future. So, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, everyone. Hello to the participants in the room. As I said, don't be shy, join us at the table, participate in the discussion. Hello to all the people connected online, and thanks for being with us for this workshop.
So, basically, I want to introduce my colleague, Hokuto, and my colleague max, joining online. So, they are behind the organization of this panel. So, I want to thank you beforehand.
Now, without further ado, I will provide you quickly, like the floor, give you some remarks about what we are here for today. We'll then introduce our panelists, and hopefully, have a very interesting discussion. So, IGF's probably the best way to show that, you know, I think we all agree that without connectivity, you can't have the digital transformation of our economies and societies. And I think there is really wide agreement, not only in this conference, but you know, also worldwide. So, if we all agree, then really, the question is, you know, how do we make sure that we have ubiquitous, high‑level connectivity at affordable prices so that everyone can participate in this digital transformation?
So, the question is, you know, how can we make sure we have enough funding that goes into broadband networks everywhere in the world? So, that means the amount of funding that we're putting in the networks today will basically define the quality of service we're getting today and tomorrow; it will define where we're getting the service; it will define the coverage. So, this is something which we can't do without it.
Now, at the OECD, we've started to question now, like if we look at investments in broadband networks, how can we quantify that? And what we discovered is that there are actually a lot of players in the ecosystem that have a lot to say, starting with the communication operators. And we have one connected online today. I mean, they are taking, obviously, the heavy lifting of investments. But then, we see there are obviously very important other groups. So, we see that a lot of government funding these days is getting into broadband, in particular, in rural and remote areas. So, we have important funds that are currently deployed in the United States to bridge coverage gaps, in the recovery packages that we see all around the world, including in Europe, a lot of funds going broadband. So, there is a different source of financing, but it's also helping to extend connectivity.
Then, obviously, we have the tech companies that are investing quite a bit on their side, and we'll hear more about it in a second. And we have new players. So, we have pension funds; we have private equity that invest a lot in wholesale access networks. So, we're seeing this in Germany. We're seeing this in Latin America. So, again, an additional player. So, basically, what we wanted to do in this workshop is take a holistic approach, hear from the different players how we can ensure that enough investments go into broadband infrastructure.
And without further ado, I'm very privileged to have impressive and high‑level speakers in this panel. So, I'll start with Ms. Agne Vaiciukeviciute. I trained. So, Deputy Minister of Transport and Communications of the Republic of Lithuania. Welcome to the panel. We are having Ms. Maki Takahashi, the Principal Deputy Director of the Telecommunications Policy Division, Telecommunications Business Department of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications, MIC, of Japan.
Then we have joining us online, Mr. Alejandro Solano Diaz, who is the CFO of ONNET Fibra Colombia. Also online, we have Adriana Labardini joining us from the Association for Progressive Communications Policy and Regulation, the Coordinator for regulation in LAC for Rhizomatica‑APC. And we have Mr. Kojo Boakye, who is the Vice President of Public Policy for Africa, Middle East, and Turkiye, from Meta.
So, to kick off the discussion, I'd like to ask all the panelists an introductory question. So, what is your view ‑‑ what is the view of the organization you're representing currently here on investing in broadband networks? So, how are you basically supporting the rollout of broadband networks? And I'd like to start with Maki, please.
>> MAKI TAKAHASHI: Hi, this is Maki Takahashi, Principal Deputy Director of Telecommunications Policy, Ministry of Internal Affairs and Communications in Japan. I would like to start by highlighting the importance of broadband connectivity. It is universal all over the world. And so, the government of each country plays an important role. But that role depends on the situation of the countries. And so, my country in Japan, I could say the high‑quality broadband has already prepared.
For example, for fixed broadband, 99.8% coverage, population coverage. And for 5G, 93.2% of the population coverage. So, our current challenge is to promote investment to the areas where investment will become naturally. And to support or spur investment to these areas, for us, setting up a clear goal is important.
And so, MIC sets up the National Broadband Connectivity Plan last year and also revised this year to set up a clear goal and also measures to be taken. For example, under this plan, we will aim for fixed broadband, 99.9% of the coverage. It's only like 0.1% difference coverage and really, really hard for us. And also, for 5G, 95% by the end of the fiscal year 2025, and 99% by the end of the fiscal year 2030.
And not only on this LAN broadband, for us for a country like mine, Japan, surrounded by sea and also, unfortunately, faces a lot of natural disasters, a lot of on‑land broadband infrastructure, this plan covers also submarine cable and also NTN. So, for example, the submarine cable, due to the geographical for the future, landing station concentrates on the Pacific Oceanside. So, we will support the companies who invest landing station on the Japan Sea side and also for the NTN, because it's a new technology, it is starting, so we will plan to build, our intention to support demonstrative experiment to the NTN. And also, we are now working on the legislative changes for the NTN to support introduction.
>> VERENA WEBER: Thank you very much for those impressive numbers from Japan. Deputy Minister Agne, what do you think?
>> AGNE VAICIUKEVICIUTE: So, hello, everyone. I'm a Deputy Minister from Lithuania, and there is all the communications‑related questions, so thank you very much for inviting us and creating this opportunity to be a part of this discussion.
So, I think my colleague mentioned some very important aspects. It's really important on the government and on the country itself, what is the status quo and where we are coming from. So, I do believe that Lithuanian case is a very good case of public and private sector collaboration, and I think that this is a key in order to roll out broadband networks and to achieve the connectivity goals.
The role of Lithuanian government, I think, should be more focused on legal and regulatory ecosystem, on creating this ecosystem, which could bring value for all, while the private sector should complement the government's efforts.
And just to brag a little bit about Lithuanian numbers as well, we do have very high numbers in the rollout of fixed, very high‑capacity network at the moment, which exceeds European Union level as well as on the premises, which really exceeds the EU average level. And with the 5G, the coverage is almost the same as in Japan, so I'm really proud. It's around 90% of the population is already covered. We achieved it within a very close cooperation with operators, just recently last year, and we hope to take a step forward in the near future. Now we're mainly focusing on enabling access to gigabyte broadband infrastructure.
So, our idea is to cover all main digitally sensitive users within the next five years, and we already allocated the funds from the government to do so. So, thank you very much. And maybe later on we will be able to elaborate a little bit more.
>> VERENA WEBER: Thank you very much. So, we heard from, I would say two of our OECD leaders when it comes to fiber penetration. So, I'd like to turn to Adriana. We heard a lot from the government perspective. Adriana, what's your take? What's the role of Civil Society in ensuring that enough investment goes into broadband networks?
>> ADRIANA LABARDINI: Thank you, Verena, and thank you to the OECD for inviting the APC through me and Carlos Ray, who is also there for the networks program. APC and its partner organization Rhizomatica have worked for six years, have been supporting the local networks program in three regions of the Global South, have been supporting many communities in 22 countries, under the understanding that the digital divide is not a problem the market alone will solve, and that we need to think differently to really expedite the closure of the digital divide, especially now after the pandemic lessons and the urgency to act and invest more sustainably with more green finance at the local level.
For instance, APC has mapped, for five years now, a baseline, baseline info to have data on the different community networks and other local networks around the Global South so then we know more about their operating models, their financial models, their CapEx and OpEx and ownership modus. And more recently, APC ‑‑ and I want to share this with all the audience ‑‑ has co‑funded an index study titled, "Financing Mechanisms for Locally Owned Infrastructure," to raise awareness in the financial community of what is a community network or a community‑driven connectivity operator? What are their values, their trends, and how to contribute to their sustainability?
It is a practical tool, this study, for those who want to build networks where the market hasn't ‑‑ basically, rural, remote, and suburban areas ‑‑ but also, it's a tool for funders and investors, caring about the planet, the environmental sustainability, and the social sustainability of these communities. It demonstrates how underserved communities can build their own Internet infrastructure and take control of their digital futures, promote circular economies, and empower themselves through capacity‑building.
Finally, APC, besides advocating for an enabling policy environment and capacity‑building, and has been doing a lot of grant‑making for these infrastructures in many communities, it is also supporting a comparative study of the financial sustainability and socioeconomic impacts of alternative digital infrastructure connectivity business models. This study will draw us much more information on all these different costs, which are much lower than large‑scale operators that successfully operate in more urban areas. Thank you, Verena.
>> VERENA WEBER: Thank you very much, Adriana. And so, we heard, you know, how, basically, local networks are stepping into local communities. We will look forward to reading the report that you're currently preparing.
So, let me turn to Kojo. So, Meta has, I think, quite an important role when it comes to infrastructure networks in Africa, so I'd be really eager to hear more about what you're doing there.
>> KOJO BOAKYE: Thanks so much. And thank you for having Meta attend and participate in what I think is an important discussion in what I think is a beautiful occasion. It was very nice to drive up here, so thank you for the hospitality so far.
As Verena mentioned, my name is Kojo Boakye. I'm Vice President of Public Policy for Africa, Middle East, and Turkiye with Meta. This is an issue close to my heart that I've worked on for now 20 years. Some of these discussions are new and innovative and feel fresh; some of them feel slightly stale and old. It's really, really nice to hear from the governments of both Japan and Lithuania about the targets they have reached. We are mindful ‑‑ and I know this discussion will explore it ‑‑ that we have a number of other goals to reach in terms of giving people inclusive access.
Meta is trying in a number of ways ‑‑ and I'll just talk about the network investments that are important at the moment. So, I think many people know, or may not know, about the investments we've made, not only in submarine cables, terrestrial fiber, CDNs, co‑located caching, and services, of course, and a lot of that goes ‑‑ for me ‑‑ goes unspoken. And I think we can do more as a company, and partners can do more to speak about how much we've done in that area.
Of course, some of you don't know me and may question what impact those investments are having. For those of you interested in raw numbers, I can tell you that we have ‑‑ we've done some studies with analysis, mason, and RTI, who looked at the impact of just one cable we've built that stretches from the U.S. to Spain, and found that within a year of that cable going live, that submarine cable going live, it was contributed more than 16.8 billion, I believe, to the economy. And we're excited by that number, not only because of the impact it's already driving, but because of continued investments that we're making.
We have two more cables coming online in 2024 and 2027 that will respectively add 32 billion and 27 billion to the economies of the countries involved in those. And why does that excite me? Verena said, well, I'm going to speak about Africa only. These cables clearly aren't only for Africa. But when you look at the investment we've made alongside with partners into Africa, which will be the first cable to connect west to east or east to west via Southern Africa, bringing 180 terabytes of capacity, connecting 33 countries in the region and through to Europe, you can understand why we and many of the governments and Civil Society organizations ‑‑ I see my colleague Annika there in the background ‑‑ as well as the communities. And the lady from APC spoke eloquently about the impact these infrastructures are having on communities ‑‑ you can understand why we're excited about these continued investments. So, I'm not going to wax lyrical about what else we're doing as Meta, but just a small snippet of what we're doing to invest in networks I'd like to leave you with, if that's okay, Verena.
>> VERENA WEBER: Great, thanks. And yeah, we can't wait to see these more fiber cables coming into service. When was it, next year and then the year after?
>> KOJO BOAKYE: 2024 and 2027. But Africa is going live now, so anyone who hasn't been abreast of those developments ‑‑ sorry. Africa cable is beginning to land now and that's what we're excited about. It is the redundancy it will give the African continent, but also this additional capacity, this additional 180 terabytes of capacity that the continent will get. And we're proud ‑‑ and I'm not going to brag too much ‑‑ to say this is the longest submarine cable in the world. So, I just want to stress, if you need more information to Africa, come see me or feel free to Google it.
>> VERENA WEBER: Thanks so much. I'm sorry to say, Alejandro, but the pressure is up now for Latin America. So, we're turning to Alejandro. So, Alejandro is the CFO of one of the wholesale companies I mentioned. So, Alejandro, tell us a bit more what you're doing, how you're connecting the Colombians and your experience so far.
>> Alejandro Solano: Hi, it's a privilege to be here in this discussion. The fiber in the world is a growing trend. The integrations of Fibra Colombia and in the UK and Netherlands, in the U.S. and UGG in Germany. After seeing these opportunities around fiber‑optic broadband networks and the huge potential of Latin American countries, KKR and Telefonica joined forces to create a fully private initiative of (?) Colombia, Chile and Peru. In Colombia, we were born in January 2022, and by the end of 2023, we will have invested approximately $240 million in network coverage and support systems. Similar amount have been invested by our colleagues in Chile and in Peru. These investments planned are among the most relevant across Latin America. A proof of our commitment to development (?) infrastructure to bridge the digital divide in inter-region and enhance development opportunities for these countries and their communities.
Colombia and Chile are currently investing in a monthly basis to expand the network coverage. Colombia has seen a network expansion of 175, measured by the number of households covered. In January 2022, and in Chile, growth between approximately 40% over the initially acquired network. So, basically, we are at new fiber‑optic network, the largest one in Colombia, and we promote the connectivity through higher investment in fiber‑optics. Thank you.
>> VERENA WEBER: Thank you so much. It was really a speedy deployment that you're having in Colombia and Chile. Congratulations on this one.
So, we heard, you know, the different perspective from different players, so we can see a lot is going on, right, by different players? And I think because this debate is currently going on in Europe, so it's really important, you know, to really listen to each and all of the players and their role in infrastructure investment.
Now, going back to the government, Maki, are there some best practices that you could share, you know what worked well in Japan, given that you have quite impressive connectivity numbers? And what are you doing next?
>> MAKI TAKAHASHI: Thank you very much for the question. And as far as our approach, I'd like to highlight our four approaches which we've taken, and I think are effective. And so, as I already told, our challenge is to promote investment in rural areas, and first and second approach is more rural areas. So, the first approach is subsidy.
In my country are the main player of the investment is carriers and also in local governments, and for carriers, it's hard to invest in rural areas and for local governments and the lack of budget. And so, government, the MIC supports infrastructure deployment of fixed broadband, two‑third of the deployment cost for the local government and half are for the private companies. And we also have the similar services scheme for the mobile broadband based on station and backward up, and above network infrastructure.
And second approach is digital arrangement. And to keep the better quality of the broadband, actually, maintenance is as important as deployment. And so, for us, we changed our telecommunication business role this year to introduce universal service scheme for broadband. And under this scheme, broadband providers ‑‑ mobile and fixed ‑‑ they set up a fund, and this fund supports fixed and are fixed broadband providers for the local ‑‑ many rural areas to maintain their infrastructure. And I hope this scheme will help them keeping the investment in rural areas.
And I could say third and fourth approaches are, third is competition policy, and fourth is spectrum allocation processes. And talking about the competition policy, currently, we have four MNOs in Japan, and we have introduced similar regulation to the carriers with higher shares. And so, in this competition between carriers, and this is the big motivation for them to continuously invest in their network for better connectivity to their customers.
And talking about the spectrum allocation, at the time of the screening, we ask carriers, or we require carriers to submit their coverage plan for five years, and then they are obliged to submit periodically, and we check periodically. So, this is another motivation for them to keep on the investment. And I think on these four measures collaboratively work well, and so I think this results in our higher, better broadband network coverage in my country. Thank you.
>> VERENA WEBER: Thank you so much, Maki. So, as a deputy minister, you point out that the legal and regulatory framework and competition policy's really crucial to make this happen. I also like spectrum and how you go about this. Wise minister, what lessons can we learn from Lithuania? How do you go about rural and remote areas? Is wholesale also an issue you're looking at?
>> AGNE VAICIUKEVICIUTE: I think, once again, I really enjoy being here with our Japanese colleague. So many things in common from this point of view. Obviously, where the competition exists, there is a competition, but when we speak about remote or rural areas, this is a key for us, for the government to enter equal access to digital opportunities and activities.
And I would like to share. The Lithuanian model I think is unique and interesting. This model works for 18 years already in Lithuania. So, the government has established a non‑profit company, which uses public funds and deploys broadband infrastructure in specifically rural areas. Nevertheless, the active infrastructure which is needed for the last mile has been deployed by private operators, because this non‑profit company offers services only for the operators, but not the end users. So, the concrete route of that network is negotiated in advance with operators, so everybody knows, you know, the rules of how it's going to be built in the future.
And what is really important maybe to mention, that the prices for the wholesale services are based only on expenses. So, there are about 40 operators which buy more than 5,800 units for wholesale services from this non‑profit company and then provide services for the end users. So, this is, obviously, very good for the market, for the operators. They really enjoy this kind of concept, and I think that we separated it 18 years ago in a very sophisticated manner, which helps us to also be one of the ones ahead in so many aspects of the penetration.
So, this model helps to attract private investments to the remote and rural areas, as I told, because the biggest part of the investment lies on the shoulders of the government, as it should be, because there is no economic viable model for them to go there. And the same price for the end users. So it helps also not to make it very expensive. I think, you know, the ultimate goal is the end users here, and to create equal rights for whatever place you are living in. And I think that only a couple of countries have the same model. I think it works pretty well and we're not planning to change it in our future, and this is an example of Lithuania.
>> VERENA WEBER: Thank you very much. So, actually, we heard about two very interesting wholesale models, both from Lithuania, and also from Colombia, Chile, and Peru. And we also heard about, you know, you're very, it seems, seamless collaboration between the public and private sector. So, now if we add Civil Society to the game, Adriana, what would you say? I mean, what approaches can we craft as a multistakeholder community, so in your eyes, what has worked? Or you know, are there other ideas we should put on the table to further extend connectivity?
>> ADRIANA LABARDINI: Thank you, Verena. First, I would say, what triggers this virtuous cycle is when you shift from an artificial scarcity system to one of abundance. And for many years, in the telecommunications sector, we have maintained this scarcity ‑‑ scarcity to access spectrum, scarcity to access backbone networks that, yes, have been built ‑‑ we have tons of submarine cables in Africa and huge backbones in Peru and Colombia, but the prices are prohibitive. So, if there were, as OECD has recommended, much more open access policies to encourage high volume of traffic use these networks, because backbone and backhaul is an important ingredient in the cost for a smaller operator. Sometimes it's even expensive, this backhaul for the larger operators, even more for a local one. So, that's the cost of spectrum. Having spectrum assigned always, like in parcels for 20 years with very expensive licenses, and then nobody's using it in rural. So, that's also ‑‑ is creating a regulatory scarcity.
Secondly, I would say that when it comes to the financial community, I think they deserve to be ‑‑ they are not obliged to know everything about local networks, about the values, the trends, and the models of community networks, our cooperatives, municipal networks, et cetera. So, we should be educating the financial community or development banks around local infrastructures, small‑scale operators. They obey to different logics. And due to innovation, they do not need economies of scale, so they can thrive and be sustainable.
And through that education to new models and to recognize that this is, in the 21st century, there is an expanded ecosystem of operators. It's no longer the times of one incumbent or two. We have operators of different flavors ‑‑ wireless, wired, large, small, fibre, using Wi‑Fi, cooperatives, non‑profit community networks, large operators, et cetera. And so, this financial community should unlock the capital to community providers that are, you know, financially mature and understand that, first, you receive a grant, then you receive a subsidy from USF funding, and then you probably can evolve to have equity. And this would benefit not only the local rural communities, but a whole country, because it would burst local economies and also burst anti‑global warming and unsustainable infrastructures.
And finally, I would say that also, of course, it is important for communities to have more financial and management education, Civil Society, APC, Rhizomatica has put a huge investment in capacity‑building, forming indigenous technical operators, I mean, technical capacity‑building, managerial capacity‑building for community networks in all the Global South.
And finally, I would say that now that the financial community on the global level and also at the national level, is playing a key role in sustainable finance ‑‑ that is in green capital ‑‑ under ESG standards, I think it would be the perfect timing to look at local development models, local solar energy, local telecom networks, meaning community networks, that are more eco‑friendly, and have much lesser costs and environmental impacts. So, in this new, expanded ecosystem of players and operators, I think impact investors funds should also look at this non‑for‑profit players, just as OECD has recognized them and recommended them when there's market failures, ITU has recommended that states look at and promote with an enabling environment these community players, and so has the OAS through Cital and some development banks like CAF and IADB. Thank you.
>> VERENA WEBER: Thank you, Adriana, and absolutely. And we actually have more important community players in the room at a table with us today as well. So, Kojo, Adriana mentioned scarcity and back‑home backbone. Can you help?
>> KOJO BOAKYE: I believe we're already helping, actually. It's been good to hear how many people have spoken about open access networks and the need for us to do that and the need for back‑haul, whether financed by the government or the private sector, in order to reduce the end cost to consumers.
Again, I could wax lyrical about our efforts. All our work, all the investments we've made in places like Democratic Republic of the Congo, Uganda, South Africa, Nigeria, have all been done on an open access basis, enabling any operator who wishes to connect and to provide those services, and hopefully, reduce the cost of those services in the final mile. But I have to admit, sitting here and hearing not only Japan's success over the years ‑‑ amazing numbers to see 99.9% ‑‑ and the goal to get to 100% in the near future, as well as Lithuania's, and having read UN Broadband Commission's recent report which outlines that at least 95% of the world's population can now access a broadband network, I think the investments that Meta continues to make in infrastructure are important. But just as important ‑‑ and my friend from the APC touched on this ‑‑ is how we attract people, how we get people to use the services. Affordability. Again, I'll embarrass her slightly, my friend Annika there who works for the Global Digital Initiative.
These are all parts that Meta are playing really important roles in. How do we then prioritize small to micro‑sized businesses who are really prevalent in my region ‑‑ Africa, Middle East, and Turkiye ‑‑ how do we get them on platform? How do we get them to receive or garner the kind of benefits of using the Internet that we all know are possible?
And then, last but not least ‑‑ and returning to the point ‑‑ is how do we continue stimulating investment in networks and the networks at the last mile, those networks in the access gap? And I think that's where Meta is playing, again, a fantastic role. I know I only have two minutes. I'm here for the next four days and I'm very, very happy to discuss these issues with anybody that wants to speak to me.
>> VERENA WEBER: Thank you very much. And that's actually the perfect lead‑up to Alejandro. So, you know, on the question of how do you stimulate investment in networks. So, what's the plan of ONNET Fibra? Can you tell us more about that?
>> Alejandro Solano: Thank you. Yes, it's important for the economy and the social development to have proper networks. So, in the telecommunication world, fibre to the home has become the standard for delivering such a Internet directly to homes. However, deployment is sometimes hampered by a lack of competition and a shortage of infrastructure. So, the open access network helps overcome these challenges, by boosting the viability of FDH and for free competition to sector, and doing it in an efficient way. Promoting investment is important to (?) the benefits of fiber‑optic providers, such as our company.
These consider several key aspects, such as connectivity, market, innovation, development, and the positive impact they bring to society.
The growing popularity of open access networks has raised hopes for a more connected and competitive future. Governments, regulators, and industry stakeholders must recognize the potential of open access models and are currently taking steps to encourage their adoption.
With the appearance of (?) network, there is no need to deploy multiple networks, one follow the other, follow different service providers to come before customers. A single network is enough for many, or maybe all the service providers to reach the market. So, (?) network bring about deployment ‑‑ sorry, operation and maintenance and efficiency to the model and allow the service provider to deploy the services and customer service. By promoting open access networks, regulators can create a dynamic environment in which service providers compete on quality and price, a connectivity option for customers. This approach fosters innovation and the rapid development of the infrastructure, providing developments in business with faster and more reliable Internet access. So, this is basically what we are doing here in Colombia to deploy open access, fibre‑neutral networks. Thank you.
>> VERENA WEBER: Thank you very much, Alejandro. And so, what we'd like to do at the OECD is, you know, we use the Internet Governance Forum to then bring all the ideas we gather here back to our member countries, to our next meetings, which are happening in November. So, and since we also want to leave a bit of time for discussion, I'd like to do a very short round among the panelists. So, you know, if you had to give me your top three in terms of priorities for governments and regulators, you know, what's next, what would those be? So, maybe around 30 seconds each, then we'll open the floor for discussion. Maki.
>> MAKI TAKAHASHI: I will keep my intervention short. Actually, I prepared two priorities only. So, one priority is to support technological development and also develop our legal scheme in line with it. And for example, recently, the companies developed virtual networks, but our current regulation is based on physical networks, so we think this approach, the advance is also important.
And second priority is, as Kojo mentioned, actually, demand is really important. And so, we need use cases, especially for the 5G. And so, 5G, we actually, I already said like 90% of coverage, but actually they're mainly using low and mid‑band and not sub‑six and higher broadband, higher band. Because it's the use case. And so, we, the MIC held a study group and discussed the use cases of 5G and we talk about the self‑driving and also the drone usage, but still, we need more discussion. And I hope that in the future, we will see more innovative services which things like 5G will bring. Thank you.
>> VERENA WEBER: Perfect. Thank you so much. Deputy Minister, what's your take?
>> AGNE VAICIUKEVICIUTE: Once again, very good insight from Japan. So, I want us to ‑‑ (off microphone)
Sorry. Once again, several amazing points from Japan. I would just want to agree and to say what we are doing on the demand side in Lithuania. I think this is a crucial point that we're creating this infrastructure. It costs a lot, but the use cases are not there yet. So, we are working on the demand side as well, because I'm lucky I'm a part of Transport and Communications Ministry, so therefore, we are a lot working on self‑driving cars initiatives, on drones, from the legislative perspective, which is already in place in Lithuania. But also, we created sandbox. We dedicated more than 25 million for use cases on 5G. So, we're creating all the value chain to promote it, to see visibly what can be done with 5G. So, it's not only network itself, but really, cases of usage. And I think at the end of this year, we'll see large eight projects in different industries ‑‑ in Lithuania by testing 5G on different problems in the society. So, I think this is very important.
And the other thing, it is also important to optimize our investments as well as to fully revise the legal framework. What we cannot accept right now, is that whatever we are planning, it takes two‑three years to do it. So, basically, all the frameworks need to be adjusted if we want to deploy it really fast, if we want to have it in a couple of years, we need to move faster.
So, on one side, it's a complaint for the government, so for myself as well, that we need to work on better schemes, and it's not only about optimizing investments, but it's also about minimizing the periods between when the investments are dedicated. The whole deployment should be done also faster than we do it now.
And of course, synergy with other utilities is absolutely necessary. When we're changing the road, when we're changing other communications within the different infrastructure, we need to think about all the broadband communications as well. We have so many cases. So, when one infrastructure is changed, but then the other is not added, and we have huge problems in a couple of years. So, I think this is very practical and crucial in order to move faster.
>> VERENA WEBER: Thank you very much. Adriana, we already heard from you on financial education, et cetera. Anything more that you want to add to your wish list for government? Adriana, could you hear us?
>> ADRIANA LABARDINI: I couldn't hear you. Could you say that again, please? Sorry for that.
>> VERENA WEBER: Yes. Your top three wish list for policymakers. You already mentioned a couple of points, you know. Is there anything you would like to add to this wish list?
>> ADRIANA LABARDINI: Thank you, Verena. Yes, of course! Community networks need an enabling environment, a simple licensing regime that is not a barrier, that it's a simple registration. They need also this affordable access to spectrum and to backhaul, and there are many ways to achieve that. They also need really good open data. We need to know where any infrastructure is available in rural areas, whether it's a tower, a roof, an IXP, a point of presence, whatever, we need open granular data maps in all the non‑urban areas where not every country has all this good geographic information systems.
We also need a huge reengineering for Universal Service Funds, because under this new era, well, the beneficiaries of those funds could be those local operators, both for CapEx, for infrastructure, for capacity‑building programs, and also ‑‑ and I'm sorry I didn't mention this before ‑‑ all these policies for inclusion should have a gender perspective.
In Brazil, for instance, we recommended that there is some funding for women‑led initiatives, women participating actively in community networks in rural areas, in the design or operation, engineering, or installation. So, you can also promote gender equality through this funding for community networks or local networks where women participate. And so, this holistic approach enables to lower barriers, and of course, a good spectrum policy of spectrum‑sharing, because there is not more inefficient spectrum that, that one that is not used. So, that use it or share it policy for spectrum and for backbone networks would be great. Thank you.
>> VERENA WEBER: Thank you very much, Adriana. And actually, we have a new project at the OECD where we're looking into mapping and how to improve geographical mapping at more granular basis, because we're quite good doing this at a national level, but then when it comes down to rural and remote area, we're less good. So, the list is getting quite long. Kojo, if you have your wish list for the governments, what would that be?
>> KOJO BOAKYE: I think many of those things ‑‑ many of the things that would be on my wish list have been mentioned already.
A quick thing on the mapping. I will say that Meta has created a number of open data, if you want to call it that, but open access maps that have been shared with both the World Bank and the UN, that are probably the most sophisticated and in‑depth population maps that one can find, which enable network planning.
We've heard about tax, spectrum, licensing, the need for gender equality or gender view on things, but I would add youth and people with disabilities on that as well. All of those marginalized groups need to be looked at.
Because we're only allowed two and I'm already over my 30 seconds, I'd probably go for number one, consultation ‑‑ actually, I'll go for three. Number one, consultation. And people say, mm, we do consult, but the depth of consultation and the predictability of that consultation ‑‑ we've given timelines, all stakeholders involved to me is incredibly important. I think what stems from that consultation is a predictability that the private sector need most of the time. And that predictability can go two ways. It can go one way, which is policies and regulations that we don't like but we can actually work with, or another way, which is policy and regulation that we do like and reflects our points of view that we'll be in a better place to work with, which is important.
And people ask what is my third point? It's innovation. And I think some of my colleagues touched on it whether it's driverless cars or whatever else. The one concern I have is that we have amazing opportunities in front of us that are exciting a lot of people, and you'll be unsurprised when I say the metaverse, artificial intelligence, what I think a number of you have focused on. And my plea to governments in my region is not to stifle innovation, because I believe that these technologies, particularly artificial intelligence, and one eye on the Sustainable Development Goals, offer us a tremendous opportunity. And my call for governments is not to stifle innovation in any way, or at least try not to. It's difficult, but try not to. Thank you.
>> VERENA WEBER: Thank you very much. And with that thought on innovation, Alejandro, anything you would like to add on our wish list for governments?
>> Alejandro Solano: Thank you, Verena. Yes. I think there is a huge opportunity to strengthen connectivity programs in several Latin American countries. I think that the first one is, it is important for policymakers to understand that expanding connectivity can begin solving a gap in terms of access. Quality Internet access is a key element in the growth of countries and open new possibility for development in areas such as education, health, government, and transportation.
On the other hand, it is important that they also understand and make use of the different technologies that can extend connectivity to most people, and which are the best technologies considering the characteristics of the location they need to reach. There is no such thing as same size fits all in regards of broadband technologies for access. In the case of FETC‑neutral networks, it is important that regulators understand the role of our network plays in breaking paradigms in the traditional way of deploying telecommunication networks, in Colombia and in any country in the world.
It is important that everyone, not only policymakers, understand that facilitating the use of existing infrastructure reduces costs and also speeds up deployment and minimize the investments cost, which ultimately benefitting communities, and it allows them a simple and agile access to service and technologies. Thank you.
>> VERENA WEBER: Thank you very much. And with this, we have a few minutes left, so I would like to open the floor for questions and comments. I see there are no questions online so far. Do I have questions in the room? Please.
>> AUDIENCE: Hi.
>> VERENA WEBER: I think you need to turn it on. Perfect.
>> AUDIENCE: Thank you. All the experiences are very interesting. I'd like to know a bit more about ‑‑ you mentioned Lithuania that has government companies, specifically for rural areas. Could you talk a bit more about that? And also, from the representative of Japan, I would be very interested, you say that there is a fund that it's for maintaining rural networks. And if you could tell us more about how does that work as well. Thank you.
>> AGNE VAICIUKEVICIUTE: Yeah, so ‑‑ okay, so, finally. Somehow, we will learn to use it. Yeah, so, 18 years ago when Lithuania regained its independence, we are starting to think how we're going to deploy all the broadband. And the idea was very simple. We need to separate operators and government investments, because we understood that still the majority will be from the government, because in the end users, the last mile should be and must be covered by operators. So, it does not profit the company under our ministry, actually, under my supervision at the moment was created, and it works very successfully. It does not compete with operators. They work in line on the decisions I had where should be the broadband, you know, deployed? Everybody knows in advance plans, each other, they coordinate it, and then everybody knows where their input is needed. So, basically, when the majority broadband to the rural area is made, the last mile is corresponding on the right timing to finally reach and connect that rural area.
Yeah, so, this is basically what we are doing now. And all the investments ‑‑ well, on the European level, we have new investments, we have RF, different investments. So, everything was dedicated for the digital component from the government side goes through this non‑profit organization to the building of towers now to all the components necessary to cover the whole country. And of course, we work a lot on the legislation, not only how to cover with 5G, but obviously, the density is the most important part. So, we did not touch upon this part, but I think this is a very interesting part as well.
>> MACTAR SECK: Thank you very much for your question. So, the universal service system I mentioned is universal service system for the broadband. And it is also similar to the universal fund system to the fixed telephone. And it's under this scheme, fixed and mobile broadband providers have to pay certain amounts, and that amount is decided by the number of the lines which they have.
For example, so, 2 yen or 3 yen for each line, so each provider has to pay this, so their subscriber's number and also the certain yen. And they have to pay that amount of money to the fund, and that fund collects all the money and allocates money to the provider, fixed broadband provider, which invests to the rural areas. And so, and this is ‑‑ and that money is for the maintaining their infrastructure cost.
>> VERENA WEBER: Thank you very much. Do we have one last, final question before we wrap up the panel? I see none. So, with this, I would really like to thank our speakers for the very interactive discussion. So, we learned a lot on the different models. Thank you. On the different models, how we can jointly invest in infrastructure, in order to go to the next level, what we haven't achieved yet. If you have any comments for us, please don't hesitate to reach out to us. And I would really like to thank the team who organized the session. Thee, Hokuto, thank you, max. And I thank the technical team in the background, our timekeeper, who made sure this hybrid session, which is not always easy, ran perfectly. Thank you very much. Have a great Day 0. Bye‑bye.