The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
***
SPEAKER: It is a pleasure to be with you. Welcome. Here today we are going to highlight how collaboration, trust, and shared vision and goals between the governments regulators, community, and private sector can drive impact in the deployment. As you know, the region has gotten here through collaboration. Through the partnership, we've achieved partnership and success. The success is not only from the technology, as you know, it is a vital and critical tool for the future of the Internet. IPv6 ensures scalability and ensures connectivity and helps the IT efforts in bridging the 2.7 unconnected until now to be connected. Our multistakeholder approach with government initiatives from across the region.
(Audio is distorted).
SPEAKER: The collaboration with the intergovernmental participation. All of these efforts mainly fostering our effort and our achievements and our evidence in doing and applying the multistakeholder approach in the IPv6 deployment. Once again for the session I welcome our online audience. My colleague, Vahan, will help as an online moderator. Big thanks to my colleague, Ulka, who will be the rapporteur for the session. Without further ado, let me introduce my colleagues for the session. I have Mr. Adel Darwich, Mr. Alammar, Mr. Ibrahim, and I welcome our friends and colleagues. To set the scene, we have here with us, Mr. Hisham Ibrahim. He will give us a nice overview of the IPv6 status in the region. Hisham, the floor is yours.
HISHAM IBRAHIM: Hello, everybody. Can you hear me? Good. Hello. I'm Hisham Ibrahim. I'm the Chief Community Officer at RIPE NCC. It's been a long time since I've been in the IGF. I think over a decade. It was well overdue. I'm happy to be here in the session talking about something that's very dear to the AR systems and also IPv6. Taking a step back about what IPv6 actually is. So the Internet is this global network of networks that is interconnected through open centers that ensure interoperability and registration services that ensure uniqueness and global structures that develop the protocol, standards, and frameworks for accountability. The underpinning technology that connects these thousands of devices, these thousands of networks, if you were in the session this morning, my colleague, Ulka, was on the panel. They were talking about how there's 17,000 different networks around the world that interconnect the underlying and underpinning technologies IP. Behind every connected device, there needs to be an address that allows it to connect to the rest of the world. Now again very quickly a historical view. The technology that was used since the beginning of the Internet was something called IP version 4 which allowed for a finite number of addresses to connect. Now it become very clear in the early '90s that we would not have enough IPv for addresses. Which is why IPv6, the successor protocol, was developed. Now Chafic wants me to talk about the session to mostly cover that and I want to address something early on. There's been skepticism about the morning of IPv6 simply because the expected run out and the prices that people anticipated in the '90s never really happened. People allowed to have mechanisms that allowed v4 and v6 to exist. We didn't really hit any crisis points. Which leads some skeptics to say IPv6 is necessary? Yes, it is. For one key purpose that ties back to why is exists in the first place. Which is innovation. Allows new people to come up with new ideas and putting it on the Internet. Just like we've seen in the past few decades. The web came on top of the Internet. Social media came on top of that. Now whatever new technologies and hypes we're talking about in the meetings will change AI and their stuff. Now to Chafic's question and summing up quickly, in the region here we've seen the numbers growing up to the right which also indicates the healthy IPv6 deployment. We're seeing in many countries and you are going to hear examples from my colleagues about what they've been doing in their countries that have really driven up not just the number of resources of IPv6 resources and how the numbers from the content providers are going up. How they are securing the resources for IPv6 and putting them on the table and aggregating the meaning. In a very quick nutshell, division here in the Middle East is doing really well when it comes to IPv6. We have a couple of countries that are going to be leading the world which we'll be talking about in a second.
CHAFIC CHAYA: Thank you very much.
(Audio is distorted).
CHAFIC CHAYA: This is shining examples. My question from the team in Saudi Arabia. How does CST manage this players together and managing the multiholder efforts while deploying the network.
ADEL DARWICH: Hello, everyone. Thank you for the question. It has given us the opportunity to see what has been done so far in the kingdom. I believe it started since 2008. We started the idea of the collaboration that we need all of the stakeholders to know the importance of the IPv6 and the risk that the IPv4 will have very soon, because of the coalition. Due to the fact that we started at that time as a national strategy with an objective of making sure that the IPv6 and the IPv4 deployment will be for us in the community to make sure we have a smooth transition and awareness and capacity building. At that time, we had kind of a strategy of three focuses. One on the service providers and the second one on the enterprise which represents the supply and lastly the end users. Having multiple focuses on those three main stakeholders gave us the leverage to be today one of the top countries in terms of adopting IPv6 and these stages, of course, we had a support from the academy, the technical experts, and others to have let's say more than 20 training programmes and more than 500 participants to make sure that we have a community that knows the importance of IPv6 adoption and the real value of it in the near future for the transformation.
CHAFIC CHAYA: Thank you so much. I will say a secret as you collaborate with us. The SEC was leading the drive for the IPv6 deployment in Saudi Arabia. Thank you again. We have another example. Our friend and colleague here with us has heard about the experience in Saudi Arabia. Once you experience TDRA and UAE and how the first experience differs?
ABDULRAHMAN ALMARZOOQI: Welcome, everyone. Pleased to be here. I'm Abdulrahman Almarzooqi. I'm with the United Arab Emirates Government. This was one of the first projects that I had since 2006. We are still working on IPv6. It is very, very, very new to my heart. I remember the first time I had training about IPv6 in 2006. Everybody was saying that we have to move to from IPv4 to IPv6. The depletion is coming sometime in the future. Of course, it happened. The depletion on the regional level. We saw that sometime in 2013. A few years later. Everybody was saying we have to, you know, move on. The users basically say what is the business case for it? What am I going to sell? It is still IPv6. We don't sell IPv4. We sell connectivity and parsing services and later become Cloud services. The engineers basically say, well, we need this. Because of the IPv6 and IPv4 is not enough. Then I think about solutions. They say when they do nothing basically too. We don't need the public addresses. Anyway, we managed to get IPv6 from 2% in 2019 to 30% in 2020. Within one year. 19 months. That jump happened. Talking about the planning and the testing for over a decade. Then there has to be a point where we shift and change and make it a reality. Thankfully TDRA with all of the stakeholders for the approach, we invited everybody from telecom operator to manufacturers to network LIRs and network operators and support of IT as well. In 2019, we put a plan and certain targets. Actually the benefits of moving from IPv4 to IPv6. Less complexity, internal networks, more efficiency, routing, security, the benefits of we had to get rid of all of this. These nothing that comprises and could be saved. Then in 2020 we managed to get 30% in IPv6. Now we are surrounded above 50%. Regionally in Saudi Arabia is a region from our brothers from Saudi Arabia they are in IPv6. I think the steps that we took for the person was how different it is. It is not different. It is exactly the same. We need to have direction. We have to have everybody on one table. Then, you know, if you are serious about it, it will happen. Thankfully, Saudi Arabia said over 65% of IPv6 offered. It is around 55%. With the support, of course, the training, the awareness, I think we managed.
CHAFIC CHAYA: Thank you. I will tell you the secret. What is the model to move up to 60%? You see that most countries are more than 70%. Second, thank you for your cooperation. This was at the national level. Let's see how the participation looks at the high level. The director of the IPv6 world. It was based upon the collaboration. It is in the private sector.
SPEAKER: Thank you for having this IGF here in the City of Riyadh. It is fabulous, I may say. It is 2.7. It is now 2.6. We're getting closer to connecting the unconnected. I believe multistakeholder has been an advocate for quite a while now. At ITU, we've been working together on setting standards and the standardisation below. We've been working together on developing at the national levels jointly with the regional offices in the development bureau. We've seen that the effort and we're proud to say we have two very excellent examples in the region. However, the rest of the region is catching up. With the upcoming of smart cities, ITU in the marketplace more and more, IPv6 is required in the technical arena as well. We've seen that interest that was mainly from governments in the past decade has now shifted to the operators. We've seen more of the operators coming to the table and discussing on the platform. How can they learn and get more capacity building? That's where we've been working closely on that as well. We've launched a new training institutions as well and courses around the region. This has been very successful. We foresee that the region is going to meet globally the IPv6 race in the coming few years. Thank you. Back to you.
CHAFIC CHAYA: Thank you. That's the secret. They are still lagging behind. It is still in the region with the content. Let's say not catching up with other countries.
MUSAAB ALAMMAR: Thanks for the question, Chafic. I think there's two really important things here. The first one was mentioned already in the successful engagements, which is getting everybody around the table. Making sure that everybody understands the ultimate goal that we're trying to achieve. It didn't come down as a top down you have to do this, you have to implement by this time. It was actually trying to get everybody to buy in and understand. Working together. There's no one organisation or entity that can get IPv6 deployed in the country. It has to be a collaborative effort. Which is why we're having the session as an IGF; right? Very appropriate. But the second one is: there was deep understanding from at the countries that were mentioned and others doing IPv6 of what they want to achieve. They don't just want to continue to run the Internet. They don't want to continue to run the services. They want to be able to provide platforms and to support again innovation. What comes next? Future technologies and not be limited by technology that we already knew from the '90s is already dying out. That mentality is really key. Now because they understood this, they were able to sit down and work with the community oncoming up with KPIs that made sense. Coming up with action plans that made sense. Acting on them. And reacting if there was something not working. I believe they mentioned the vendors. If there's a vendor they had an issue with and bringing them over and understanding what the issue is. If there was an issue with that perception and the IPv6 is more difficult and more costly, then explaining how this actually is not the case and doing the training and stuff. However we have seen other examples that weren't as successful in the region. That they would, like, all of the sudden you would find overnight a national IPv6 road map being developed and in X number of years, we're going to have traffic of X number of things. That's usually developed like by the consultants without talking with the community. Without having the understanding of the different dynamics that are in the country. There's just making impossible promises which has also led some people to be skeptic. Because these deadlines, these flag days come and go. Nothing really changes. The Internet continues to run. People then assume, well, it is not really that big of a deal. I believe those approaches have hurt more than they have helped. Whereas working together and understanding what we're trying to do and allowing for the innovation was the key of the success overall.
CHAFIC CHAYA: Thank you. The last two years working with regulators and e especially CST and TDRA, we noticed that the concept had changed from regulation to collaboration. This is really the big shift. What challenges because we know the operators. Thank you.
ABDULRAHMAN ALMARZOOQI: First of all, it is not money generating. It was a real challenge at the beginning. And on top of that, in 2008 as I mentioned, that the speeds and operator system have an equipment and devices in their network not yet supporting the IPv6. So our secret recipe is having, like, an IPv6 task force at the beginning and gathering all of the operators and experts all over the nation. Having a period discussion about the importance and the challenges, providing them like the collaboration to do the experiments and make sure they are doing something safe and not harming the network, and giving them the time needed to shift and change all of the equipment without investing again on the network that can still last for more years. This is what we have done to have a smooth, let's say transition from v4 to v6. We didn't have any issues. We gave them time. We'll raise the awareness. We did a lot of capacity build, the partnerships and with the experts all over the world. Thankfully it was as smooth as you can see and different. We did that. Very smoothly. For those countries who will start today, it will be a challenge for them. There will be a cost of changing this equipment and integration. Even the devices and the networking, not devices, phone devices, it was a long time for testing and these devices. It has to be set for IPv6. Then it will be enabled with IPv6 in that specific country. So I think this is this is the point that I would like to add with the we worked on the enterprise side. We secured and recreated the manual for them to understand and what to do the full plan, including the technical aspect. Let's say the guideline. Through that, they will be able to make a good plan to provide the Internet services supporting IPv6. One of the things that I would like to celebrate with you today is we had just finished the TDRA. The government authority. They just finished something called (?) for the governmental entities for the transformation and the collaboration with them with the TDRA and specifically we had some kind of criteria that those governmental entities who enabled IPv6 will gain higher score in terms of the readiness for the digital transformation. We are not only focusing on the service provider, we are also focusing in the supply, helping them to provide the needed services when IPv6 has one.
CHAFIC CHAYA: It is more activities that you take during this year.
Once again I'm going to experience the similarities. It is different steps and different let's say the plans and project. How we encourage and give the opportunity for the operators with you and collaboration with you let's say to achieve the successful result.
HISHAM IBRAHIM: Thank you, Chafic, for this question. There was a discussion actually whether we should come up with integration or a policy to govern and mandate IPv6. Honestly, at the time, I was opposing it. Every other instrument for that. In my opinion, the IPv6 was only understood by people who are in the technology aspects. It is not understood by the business people. We came up with the departments and they will start thinking about how to be defensive about it. Perhaps drag it and delay it as much as possible. Let's say try to slow it down. That's not the right approach. Let's talk to the engineering people. They understand this. We tell them what they need to empower you if you want to do changes. The engineers think about the plan and try to do it as smooth as possible. It is a fresh cycle for all of the systems. You talk to anyone from engineering. They know what we're talking about. The device has to live for five years and seven years. Then there will be a time where it has to be changed. What they've done is basically we were talking about the IPv6. They put a plan in place. It has to be years ahead. When it comes to the action, it will be deployed. They will try to make it all IPv6. They have to do tests and all of these things. When there's a device that needs to be changed, they wait for the first cycle. They change the device so it is IPv6 compatible. We came to them and told them what's the reason for the time frame for you? If you want to start providing IPv6? They said, well, for us one of the operators said we're ready. We start. We will start with customers and segments of the network. Then we'll build on the experience. Then migrate slowly, slowly up until the entire network is IPv6. Then, of course, it will be in the stack gaining for that IPv4 and IPv6. It will work depending on the customer. It is part of the implementation. You will get an IPv6 address and then the traffic will be IPv6 all the way. So they said, the other operator said we need some time. We have some core functions in the network. Still not fully IPv6 ready. We need it on the year to do it. That's fine. A year is time to think about the decades of when IPv6 existed. We waited for a year. That's in a nutshell why we thought with the operation as you mentioned. It is a better approach when we talk about IPv4 likeness.
CHAFIC CHAYA: Thank you. Back to you Adel. We listen to the experts on the policy perspective. These two activities as we mentioned is at the heart of the ITU work. Once again in the region, how can they catch up as a critical tool in the government?
ADEL DARWICH: Thank you very much. First of all, if you would allow me to comment on what Abdulrahman mentioned. Sometimes regulation is not the way to go. What we've seen over the past few years the business model and the business needs of telecom companies has changed. This has forced the community to now start focusing on other services, especially those COVID when now telecom industry has become a pillar for digitisation of every other sector. The need has grown dramatically. The business mindset changed as well. We can't do it by ourselves. We're just one player going back to multistakeholdersism. It is key for us is we support when it comes to capacity building. That's one thing we do jointly with RIPE NCC. We have worked with regulators to set up strategies and policies. Light touch regulation we always encourage to allow for innovation. That's very important for us. At the same time, we established a service. The IPv6 center. We have trained a few instructors from that center as well. We have done this regionally and globally as well. We have promoted IPv6 work in 2020 as well in the sector which is related to smart cities and IOTs. Maybe that has been our focus for the past few years. As I mentioned earlier on, because the business model has changed in the recent couple of years, we've seen requests coming in from operators without the government. We've seen that operators now want to take the lead on moving to IPv6. Which again that serves our joint purpose or aim in the field as well.
CHAFIC CHAYA: Thank you, Adel. Before we take a question from the floor, I'll go back to the recent article that you wrote about the Internet. What is the Internet? What we are doing is the Internet or we need to regulate the application over the Internet? Can you just share your thoughts why you should not upgrade the Internet?
MUSAAB ALAMMAR: I'm happy to answer the question. So the word Internet is used on a daily basis. Because it touches a lot of what we do. However, it doesn't always mean the same thing to the same people; right? When somebody technical like myself talks about the Internet, we're talking about that network of networks that are interconnected that allow packets to go from point A to point B, regardless of what is built on top of that. Whether those packets are web traffic, whether they are another application, that's stuff that is built on top of the Internet. Whereas it become the word Internet, because it became a big part of our lives. It became a shorthand for everything that's built on top of that network. Now some of the things that are built on top of that network have issues that need to be dealt with. But that doesn't necessarily mean the Internet has an issue. A prime example of this is something that I usually say I have a son that likes to play Fortnite. He's not even ten years old yet. He knows when the network is lagging. He comes to me and says it is lagging. I cannot play. He's driving up the measurements and the demands, like any good customer would. Then he comes and says the Internet is not working; right? Actually, the Internet is working. The problem is with your application; right? Because that's really the thing. He cannot connect to a server. It is not like the Internet around the world is not working. It is become such a shorthand that people are used to it. If you cannot connect to your favorite app on your phone, the Internet has an issue. If service that you are using has privacy issues or trust and safety issues, then we need to fix the Internet. Whereas the Internet works and functions. It's becoming to a point it is dangerous. You see the amount of meetings and discussions in governance forums that are talking about fixing the Internet. They are talking about platform issues. It is not an Internet issue. It is a platform issue. Privacy issues. Again not the Internet. Issues related to, like I was saying, trust and safety. There's a lot of them that fall under the word Internet. The equivalent that I can give is saying you need to fix the Internet. Your Windows machine that you are using is not allowing you to connect; right? Being able to distinguish where the problem is and dealing with it in the right, appropriate forums and talking with the right language about it is key or else you end up trying to regulate the future technology by changing fundamentals that made the Internet what it is in the first place. That kills innovation.
CHAFIC CHAYA: Thank you. This is a misconception that every day we see this during our daily life. I will open the floor for some questions. I believe you raised your hand. I will give you the floor.
AUDIENCE: Thank you. Hard to tell. Many of you know me. We're talking about Internet governance. I was there when Chafic convened the experts in 2004. I was there. That led to the creation of IGF. The reason I bring this to your attention here is the experiences that I heard from UAE from Saudi about IPv6 moving from IPv4 to IPv6. The reason why it took such a long time is some kind of draw for the benefit of the community. In addition to the examples that you mentioned earlier on as to why it the update was not there. Then all of the sudden now it jumped from 2% to 30% or something like this in the UAE. This is where the community needs leadership. Because I think it is another UAE example. When we talked about needing to make the case; correct? I can't remember. Somebody was saying the decision makers or telecom operators make the case why we should go to IPv6. In certain areas, this cannot be made. It needs leadership. I cannot underscore this enough, because today, and I attend conferences all over from the world. For the last couple of years, everything is about AI. Kentucky Fried Chicken is doing AI now. You are laughing. But nobody is asking what can we do that's unique? This could be how your country could develop a competitive advantage in the space. How can it be the innovator, not just the trend setter, because everybody is following. My point here is I thank you for asking me to come here. You are created this thought in my mind. How can we learn from the examples that not everything can be made the case for the trick was leadership? That comes from the government. It comes from the regulator. I can share something else with you. One of the utmost clients, I can't say who I work with. In the country is now more than 80% of the 5G towers. Why I show you this here is they figured a different level. If you are innovating and if you are thinking of several and you are thinking how can I create a competitive adventure for my country, there are many ways to create competitive advantages. It starts with leadership.
CHAFIC CHAYA: Well said. We know in Europe, private sector leads. In the region and it is not something negative at all, governments lead. Without the collaboration with these guys without the collaboration of the regulators. Once again it is not because the government doesn't want to lead. They want to control everything. No. They want to lead because they have the authority. They have the best running room to get people around the same table. They have the expertise to deal with this alone as well and to see we couldn't get all of the operators. This is one thing. The second thing is 5G. This is the last question for Hisham. I will leave two minutes for each speakers to give his thoughts. The remarks, we'll still have ten minutes. Then we close. I will start with ITU.
ADEL DARWICH: Thank you very much. I would say leadership should be at multistakeholder level. If you are one entity, you have cost and implications. The leadership has to be the whole of the community, policymakers, regulator, they have to agree whatever they are doing in the industry has to be the benefit of the old. That's very key. They also believe we need to continue collaborating with the different stakeholders. As was mentioned, the business model altogether has changed a lot. We're not talking about the same technology and services as we did ten years ago. It is different today. With Google Glasses coming into the play today. It is a reality. People are using it today. With all of the device, you have 10 20 devices on you in the coming five years. All of them are going to be talking through the public network. There's going to be needs for that. Are the operators and the environment innovative enough to accompany all of the services? I think it is a multistakeholder. Everyone needs to come together. We need to look at future. Thank you.
CHAFIC CHAYA: thank you, Adel. Hisham?
HISHAM IBRAHIM: I want to wait until the end. I'll make more three minutes. Go ahead.
ABDULRAHMAN ALMARZOOQI: How we go about leadership is a key. Of course, you need leadership. You need also the stakeholders to call on the problem with you as well. So that they are because at the end of the day, they are the one who will actually make the difference and take the actions. For us, I think, yes, it needs a bit of convincing. We played the argument of telecom. It is not telecom anymore. It is digital. There's a lot at stake. You have IUTs. You have Cloud computing. AI. All of these emerging technologies. They all need robust and strong infrastructure. You need to develop your infrastructure. To cope for all of the changes. I think that's a mindset shift that needs to happen when we talk about ISP or telecoms. They are not just telecoms. They need to move to be digital companies. They have to have a bigger role. Of course, they need a stronger, more advanced networks. One more comment that I have when Dr. Chafic talked about leadership in the region is usually from the public sector and the government. I have this a couple of times. People talk to me, because I'm also from the digital government. They tell me I wish sometimes; you know, I hear these comments. I wish some of our companies built good user experience and applications. Digital applications like the government of the UAE. I've heard this a couple of times. And I've seen this. He comes on stage. In 2013, he came up and said I want all of the government to be mobile. All of the government authorities in the UAE have actually built mobile applications, moving ahead of the rest of the private sector in the technology. That's the leadership in our region, I think, the example that we give. Then we see the private sector is moving as well in the same direction as the government.
CHAFIC CHAYA: Thank you.
HISHAM IBRAHIM: Since two or three years, I never submit any document or paper. Yeah. This is one of the successful examples. It is the transformation and in technology and leadership too. Thank you.
MUSAAB ALAMMAR: Thank you so much. Just to wrap up and wouldn't take that much of time.
CHAFIC CHAYA: I will give you two minutes.
MUSAAB ALAMMAR: I'm kidding. Thank you so much. First of all, I would like to agree to what has been mentioned regarding the leadership style and multistakeholder approach that we are getting today. We need to hear from them and make them buy in and to believe in our directive. We need to hear from them every little challenge and facilitator whatever can be facilitated with the government. Letting them believe on the national ambition. Eventually as mentioned, there's no case, valid case, at that time. For example, in the last few years, one of the operators were able to activate more than ten million smart readers easily. It was one of the cases that the IPv6 was like in leverage for them to enable the digital transformation and the IT solution easily without going through the IPv6 process and these kind of things. This is a case. But it is coming now with the 5G and IOT. More cases came up. The necessarily of IPv6 will be more and more clear for the ISP and the operators yet. Thank you so much again.
CHAFIC CHAYA: Thank you. 30 seconds. I need to follow up. Thank you all for recognising and agreeing with what I said. I need to emphasise something. When I talk about leadership, I'm not talking about IPv6 or IPv4. I'm talking about in general. There's a misconception that we need to actually expose. We always hear about private sector led is better than government. Government is inefficient. It is an example of this. The leadership shows the example to be not true. Rightfully my concern and my passion is to make the other region succeed and be competitively advantageous is whenever you are in the position of leadership, take it. If you are a government, enable. The multistakeholder model becomes secondary. The true leader will know how to create that. That's my two cents. 30 seconds, I hope.
CHAFIC CHAYA: Thank you. Government enabled the multistakeholder approach to link both of them. Sorry. We have another question from the floor. We are here at the multistakeholder, inclusive, and friendly environment meeting. I will give the floor. I'm sorry.
AUDIENCE: Thank you. Actually, I totally agree with you. Innovation will look for to update IPv6 deployment in the communities. The whole culture will be here. Do we think the integration for the IPv6 certification for the imported hardware from outside? The switches or routers or firewall to be IPv6? That's the first thing. Second, if there's a comment or collection. Only one makes the market holder. Also there's a lot of the IT services that will be available soon. Thank you.
CHAFIC CHAYA: Hisham, I'll leave the floor to you. Okay. Please go ahead.
HISHAM IBRAHIM: So on the hardware manufacturer, I think it is it is not necessary to be honest. We didn't we did not issue a regulation saying that all switches and routers and CPE devices have to be at IPv6 compatible. What we've done is basically in the multistakeholder approach, we talk to the manufacturers. We said, look, we are going IPv6. All of the operators are supporting IPv6. It is better for you in the market, if you want to sell your devices, they better be compactable. That's one thing. The second thing is some of these devices are procured by the ISPs. So if the ISPs put it as a mandate when they procure these devices, they put it in the RFP or, you know, the orders they make for the agreement. It has to be IPv6 compatible. We took that approach. We did not there's nothing wrong if there's regulation by the government or, for example, approval saying it has to be IPv6. Maybe it will help as well. Yeah.
CHAFIC CHAYA: Thank you.
ADEL DARWICH: Just to add one point. We are in a similar situation. It could be mandated. With the collaboration of the ISPs and the operators, we figured out that all of the new devices coming to the kingdom, most of them are supporting IPv6. The real issue is we have none supporting IPv6 working perfectly in the network. It cannot be changed within one or two years. This is the new problem. The new devices most of them go through the way. When it come to the IOT, there's a saying if you are going to put more restriction in the IOT, you are against the adoption of the IOT in your country. At the same time, we're leaving that to the ISPs. They are in dire need of putting it working as soon as possible. We are almost giving and having the same direction when it comes to your question.
CHAFIC CHAYA: Thank you.
MUSAAB ALAMMAR: I'll try to do even less. Just going back to the theme about leadership, which you brought up. The characteristic of leadership is vision. I will end on that. You need to have a vision of where you want to be going. If it is just continuing to provide Internet services, then, yes. You can use NAT or any other services or buy IP services. Your Internet will continue to run. However, if you have a vision that comes from the live, you want to be at the cutting edge of innovation, you need to make sure your Internet has what it needs to continue to support what you are building on top of it. Your digital economy and your applications and everything that will give you that cutting advantage. That will bring in the revenue. It is not just going to be the packets back and forth. That's not where the money is. It is what's built on top of it. You need to do the right thing for the network. Thank you very much.
CHAFIC CHAYA: Thank you. I thank everyone. We are over time. But the secretariat asked me for three outcomes. If you are here with me, I will say leadership, collaboration, capacity building.
Vision and leadership. This is the outcome of the session. We'll share the report. I thank everyone in the meeting room. Especially the colleagues for being here. I wish we had more time to continue this interesting discussion. Hopefully next time. Thank you, everyone. Thank you so much.