IGF 2024-Day 1-Workshop Room 8- WS194 The Internet Governance Landscape in The Arab World-- RAW

The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.

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>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: (Speaking in non‑English language).  And now allow me to switch to English for our bilingual audience first I would like to welcome you all to our workshop, workshop 194, regarding the internet governance landscape in the Arab world and I want to take this opportunity to thank the kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the wonderful theme of the digital government organisation in Saudi Arabia for hosting us for the 19th Internet Governance Forum wishing them all the best and all the success and hopefully we will see the kingdom of Saudi Arabia continuing in its engagement and the internet governance whether in the Arab region or globally.  First let us shed the light on the topics that the workshop will address.  We'll be addressing the top ‑‑ the landscape in terms of the policy dialogue and development.  The multistakeholder participation and engagement.  What has been accomplished so far the priorities and the top issues of the region according to each stakeholder group.  And before I will continue, let me introduce myself which I didn't do with you.  Qusai AlShatty, an activist is how I describe myself in the Arab world and internationally and I take the pleasure to introduce my colleague Chafic Chaya who is my coorganizer of the workshop.

I would also like to introduce my panelists with us.  Ayman El‑Sherbiny.  Charles from Jordan, Ahmed from Egypt, Arab government, Charles, civil society and private sector.  Ayman El‑Sherbiny is government organisation and someone from the kingdom of Saudi Arabia.  That is how I will state it.  Just a simple background before we enter the workshop.  You are the panelists more than the audience here.  We will allow the panelists to give intervention.  And then make it more active.  Internet governance was initiated as an idea from the Geneva declaration principle where it said international governance is you should be addressed in a coordinated manner and taking account from the Geneva principle in phase two and defined in paragraph 34.  This is by public, society in their respective roles in making decision‑making procedures and the programs that shape the evolution and use of the internet. 

In that regard, there were two tracks, one was what is called the enhanced cooperation track.  Enable governments on equal footing to carry out their roles and responsibilities in international public policy issues pertaining to the internet but not in the day‑to‑day technical and operational methods and the second track is the Internet Governance Forum, open and inclusive process in a multistakeholder format.  Moving forward.  Define the stakeholder governance, technical community, intergovernmental organisations and user at large and it outlined what is the scope of the role of the IGF.  I will not go on but I will point up to the keywords, public policy, discourse facilitating between bodies, and different international public policies, exchange of information, best practices, accelerate and availability and affordability of the internet, enhance engagement of stakeholders, identifying emerging issues, IG capacity building, solution to issues, use and misuse of the internet, interface of IG and related organisations.  So from there, this is just a background.  Now on the landscape today, in the Arab world, on the intergovernmental levels we have organisations like the ITU which has an Arab region.  The UN, the league of Arab states, if we look at the technical community who is all involved in the Arab world we have the icon, the RIPE NCC, we have the public sector in terms of operators and we are always actively engaged in the internet governance scenes.

And then we have the Arab internet governance, we have realized and recognized how, let's say, the civil society of the Arab world is active.  Moving from here, we have many examples of IGFs in the Arab world.  We have the IGF in Sudan, in Indonesia, in Lebanon and there is an IGF coming but I will leave it to the statement of the respective person.  Regional IGFs.  We have the Arab IGF and the we have the North Africa IGF actually and the technical community, we have many events that is organized by the technical community like the middle eastern, the NS forum, the Middle East school of internet governance, the Middle East network operator group and on the governmental level the ITU has an office dedicated for the Arab region, the U.N., and the league of Arab states which also the umbrella organisation for events such as the Arab IGF and the digital cooperation agenda.  From here, I will pass the floor to my dear colleague, coorganizer to address others.
>> Thank you Qusai.  And good morning, everybody, good afternoon.  Thank you Qusai, first, it's a pleasure and honor to be here with you today and thank you for all of you to take the time to join our webinar.  Just I think not forget that we have online colleagues that will join us. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Did they come online?
>> We have two colleagues, Christine and say that, unfortunately, they could not attend so we are waiting for them to join online today it's really an achievement for all of us to have IGF in Saudi. 

We work with all the stakeholders and we put all our efforts to celebrate this moment so thank you doctors for your efforts and for hosting this IGF.  Sure, yeah.  Just I will not take a lot of time.  I will take two, three minutes to reflect on a webinar we did co‑organized between Lebanon IGF, Arab IGF and North Africa IGF on 10th December, it was an excellent discussion where we defined three pillars to just start our discussions and these pillars are, let's see if it works.  These are defined with harmonization with IG, capacity development, parliamentary track and collaboration, so I will go through quickly just to refresh your mind and this will be like a report to be discussed later on.  So for harmonization of the IG efforts we defined that there should be more strong multistakeholder internet governance across the region.  We need to have more enhanced collaboration based on trust.  We need to have strength, IG initiatives and more engagement, especially from private and governance.  We need to discuss alignment with WSIS+20 and this is a long discussion I hope we can to go into. 

Capacity building.  As Qusai mentioned, this region is really how can I say, can be differentiated from other region with the efforts that is done by the technical community.  With our colleagues, we did a lot of things.  And we achieved a lot of things and I'm really happy that this collaboration between the technical community and all the different groups paid off.  There was something that we need to check or we need to know or we need to investigate the economic impact of IG.  And this I believe the academic stakeholder group can help us in this.  And for the Arab youth of course we need to have any blood, new generation and someone to take these discussions for the future and this is the role of the Arab youth.  Okay I don't have the slide but the third perimeter was the track.  We know that now there is a lot of discussion and focus to have the parliamentary involved in the IG discussions but there is an issue.  There's a gap, not an issue.  That this parliamentarian need to have the technical background in order to put the right policies that will not affect the internet and will not affect other industries that use the internet.  And fourth, we need to collaborate.  With one principle trust.  If we don't trust each other the collaboration means nothing.  We need to collaborate more.  Each in his and her expertise, once again it's a multistakeholder internet governance processes with five multistakeholder groups that's recognized by the U.N. but each of these groups has its own expertise and we need to use each one in its expertise.  I will stop here and give the floor after setting the scene with the speakers we will have an open discussion with the audience, thank you so much. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Thank you.  First let me welcome Christine who is joining us online.  She is a panelist with us and she's also from the TRA Egypt.  So we would like to first welcome Christine joining us through Zoom.  My ‑‑ allow me first to talk to the panelist and allowing a presentation.  My first question will be to the doctor.  And I would like to ask the question of someone who looks at the landscape from, let's say the outer box.  What trends are advancing internet governance in the Arab region and how can collaboration between local stakeholders can be stricter?
>> Thank you very much.  First of all, I would like to welcome all of you to Saudi Arabia.  It means a lot to us.  And we hope that everybody of you is enjoying the whole week attending our workshops.  Going back to the questions, to the question at hand I think everyone is talking about AI right now.  And how AI is really transforming everything what we do.  A part of it is the governance.  How we govern the impact of AI and internet as a whole and into the usage of the internet itself.  We would like to maintain the trust, encourage the trust of the usage of the internet itself so having a clear governance framework that really embrace the trust among all of us in this domain I think this will have a huge impact.  This is in one hand, and the other hand there are some minority groups are not engaging well in shaping how internet should work.  And these minorities we should encourage them to engage more, especially the end user itself.  So having to listen to their issues high we bridge the issues all the way to the decision makers I think this is a keeper, thank you very much. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: We are looking for an announcement.
>> In Saudi, we just launched the IGF chapter last month.  The first workshop was two weeks back.  This was a kickoff of this chapter and we are looking in our community locally in Saudi.  And we are bridging the IGF community within Saudi across the globe operation, so thank you very much for reminding me. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Thank you, thank you Dr. Wally, thank you.  I would like to shift to my dear colleague Christine Arida who is joining us through Zoom. 

And I would like to address to her the question on how do you see the role of governance in shaping internet nans policies in the Arab region? 
>> CHRISTINE ARIDA: Thank you Qusai, can you hear me?  Can you hear me? 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: I just need to make sure she's ‑‑
>> CHRISTINE ARIDA: Can you hear me? 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Yes. 
>> CHRISTINE ARIDA: First of all I would like to thank the king of Saudi Arabia for organizing and hosting this IGF and it's a pity that I cannot be in Riyadh with you all but it's a great opportunity to be speaking through this online platform.  And I would like to thank you Qusai and my dear colleague Chafic for organizing this important session.

I believe the Arab region has a great cooperation among Arab governance in many areas.  If you look at collaboration within Arab governance within the ITU you see a lot of activities.  I remember at the time of the WSIS when it was in Tunisia there was so much collaboration and in the league of Arab states there is so much of that as well so governments do play a role in cross border collaboration for internet policies and for telecom policies among governments.  Having said that, it has been a challenge for the ‑‑ for the multistakeholder platforms to include governments more actively into the multistakeholder dialogue and I was happy to listen to Chafic mention the dialogue about that and how it is important to broaden within government collaboration.

And in that respect we are facing a new era.  Especially with Saudi Arabia also hosting the IGF.  I think there is a great opportunity for ab rather governments to open up to dialogue with other stakeholders within the classical intergovernmental processes so specifically within the Arab league to shape the future of policies relate to do digital governance as we approach the WSIS + 20 and also talk about the future of the IGF in that perspective.

So I think governments do play a role and I think there is a need for enhancing and empowering the role and the dialogue that governments have by injecting further multistakeholder processes into that and I see here that national and regional IGFs that are in the region, you mentioned Tunisia, and you mentioned Saudi Arabia they can play a great role to bring those processes together.  I hope this helps, thank you, Qusai. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Thank you, Christine for your intervention and very interesting point.  I'll shift to my dear colleague Ayman El‑Sherbiny.  I would like to bring the question how do intergovernmental organisations facilitate more substantial synergies among and between the Arab countries and the global internet governance ecosystem including if you can shed the light on the panel of the digital operation.
>>
>> Ayman: Thank you very much dear Qusai for organizing this session and we see dear faces and partners that we have not met for some time. 

And that is not by coincidence actually we in the U.N. economic and social commission for western Asia have collaborated with our dear colleagues in Saudi government.

The digital government authority and others.  More than a year ago.  During the hosting arrangements and preparations for this very dear and very honorable event that we do in the region for the second time in the last fifteen years.  I recall Sharma.  And we are proud to be here in the right time in the right place like ten months or less from the WSIS + 20 review.  So what is the role of the United Nations in the internet governance arena and in the region?

First of all as you all know, the WSIS itself which spin off the global IGF was a platform under the auspices of the United Nations General Assembly during 2003‑2005.  This was part of the working group on internet governance during 2003‑2005.  Which give birth in the agenda to the IGF it also gave birth to other processes like the cooperation and others ‑‑
>> (Speaking off mic). 
>> ZEINA BOUHARB: During this period few IGFs off in different parts of the world so in 2009, we and UNESCO came up with having the Arab Internet Governance Forum similar to other regions and we took a couple years for the league of Arab states.  Thank you.  From 2009, there was a shift to 2011 we got all the arrangements between us and the neighboring countries and I command the role of the Egyptian government authority.  In a very important event which Qusai shared and Christine also.  In January 2012 we put the first building block for the Arab Internet Governance Forum which is under the auspices of the S 1.  And has its mag like the global model and changing from one place to another.  And I also recall the first host of the internet governance forum and the role‑played by Qusai at the time.  So we did the model that mimicked the other model.  We created the model, built a partnership and championships and we hosted six annual Arab Internet Governance Forum since then and it's a good chance to ask my colleague, Rita, to distribute some information about the Arab IGF 7 that will take place in a a man which will take mace in 6‑7 weeks there now.  We would like you to do two things, first of all, to mark your calendar for the Arab IGF 7 in a men in the region and spend the week there.

Not only for the Arab IGF but for the Arab oasis.  Furthermore for the first conference on the Arab digital agenda that we with all member states have developed in the region for the region adopted by heads of states which have 35 goals for digital development in the region until 2033.  So we'll have three different communities coming together in the same week.  You will have the brochure now from Rita on the DCDF and I like that you register but what is the second thing we want from you.  We want you to be here tomorrow but two rooms in workshop 11.  But at 10:30 if I'm not mistaken and we will make a consultation on the WSIS + 20 review T next ten months.  We will also connect this to the internet governance as well as to the impact process.

It's around consultation that we're doing tomorrow for 90 minutes and your presence tomorrow is no less important than your presence today so please be there.  We will touch more, deep dive into the GDC, its relationship to the Arab digital agenda, IGF and the Saudi IGF and I'm proud we have as Chafic mentioned the north African IGF and we have also the head of the mag of the Arab IGF.

And nigh we have a colleague partner from the Saudi IGF.

And we have the Lebanese IGF so tomorrow it'll be very important that we come together to shape also our strengths and presence not only for a men IGF 7 but hopefully we will do an announcement also related to the next edition of the Arab IGF 8 very soon.  Thank you so much. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Thank you.  Thank you.  I would like to mention our second online panelist, say that Bouharb from Lebanon.  And she is with us online.
>> JASON:  Yes, I am here. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: What would you like to have for this framework? 
>> ZEINA BOUHARB: Thank you for letting me host the important event and thank you and Chafic for organizing this workshop. 

Well, if I want to answer your question about recommendation you know it's to ensure a more robust and sustainable internet governance framework in the Arab region the governments maybe should first address technical regulatory and social challenges and the picture, the first from country to country because there is also this difference in technological advancement between the Arab country.  So first I would say my recommendation would be to enhance connectivity and to invest in the development of reliable digital infrastructure because sustainable internet governance requires strong and accessible digital infrastructure before everything else to enable equitable participation across the region.  My second recommendation would be regarding cyber security and data protection.  Also a more secure and trusted internet is fundamental for internet governance.  There is a need to have data protection frameworks that are aligned with international best practices while at the same time accounting for local needs and local context.  And one very important recommendation would be to withhold the multistakeholder approach where all the relevant stakeholders, governments, business, civil society, technical community and academia they all can play an active role in policymaking by establishing national frameworks for dialogue between stakeholders, such as the national IGF and regional IGF and also by encouraging participation in the global internet governance institution like ICAN and the IGF.  So if you want to, we can have a lot of recommendations but you know there is also a need for digital literacy programs within the Arab countries to integrate this literacy into educational curricula and also there is something very important which is the ‑‑ to foster the regional cooperation.  I think Mr. Ayman already tackled this issue and he will go deeper into this topic.  So this would be my recommendation.  Thank you, Qusai. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Thank you Zeina for your valuable input.  I will give the floor to my colleague.

And you represent a civil society organizer but your membership is based in the private sector.  So my question will be in that compounded form.  What role, when we say internet governance landscape civil society is the most stakeholder that participate.  Private sector is from the list.  So how in that context, what role does civil society and private sector play in governance in the Arab region and how can this role be played in‑house.
>> Charles: Thank you for the invite and thank you for the Saudi government for having this wonderful event here in fact as you mentioned good to mention because now I represent the international trademark association which is officially a nonprofit organisation but more than 95% of our members are private sector so it is ‑‑ I was in the private sector before.  So to answer your question, Qusai I think the best way to ‑‑ the role, I don't think I will talk a lot about it because everybody knows the important role of the multistakeholders and what they were talking about all the time so we need the opinion and the views of these two important sectors in everything we do here of course.  And in the Arab IGF and the local IGFs but maybe, how tone Hans it better, I can maybe think about it.  I think we need more sustainable financial special rapporteur civil society to continue participation.  I know many organizations usually doesn't have the budget to go to such forums and online it's easier and still sometimes the in‑person presence helps a lot in this.  Going to the private sector and I think we need to show them more, the importance of being part of the policymaking, let's say, because I know this is mainly a nonbinding port.  At the same time it's important not to see what the others want.  We need to know the private sector which is mainly the runners of the big economy around the world we heard in the morning the minister, excellently put it in a wonderful presentation that you are talking about 20.6 trillion?  We know the drivers are mainly the private sector.  We need to know what they expect there the internet, how to be part of it as we talked.  So I think this is, especially in our region, needs to be more clearer or clearer for the private sector because this is exactly what we face in the Arab IGF.  And they have the right trend we always had lack of private sector.  So this is exactly we need to tell them not just to concentrate on your work but be part of this because this will affect your work in the future.  My recommendation would be awareness more of the importance of this for all the stakeholders especially the private sector.  Thank you.  And if you allow me to say, you know they have a conflicting meeting.  I only have three minutes if you allow me to leave so I don't disturb anyone.  I will see you tomorrow and the other workshop if anyone is looking for me. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Thank you, Charles, for being with us.  Thank you.  Thank you.  I appreciate it.  I will pass the floor to my dear colleague Ahmed from the ATR Egypt and I will ask him a question.  What are in your view the top priorities for the Arab region and internet governance and how can government align these priorities with the global internet governance agent?
>> Ahmed: Thank you for organizing this workshop and thank you for hosting the global agenda and for the opportunity to be here this year.  In my view, about the priorities in our region, I think there is a common need in our region called engagement.  Okay?  I think we should support the multistakeholder engagement.  In all our process.  In the Arab region.  Arab region actually at the best years we have many initiatives as you mention the presentation we have now national IGFs, we have regional IGFs and youth IGFs by the way in Kenya.  I think creating kind of a networking between all these initiatives in our region is something will help us to focus on the challenges in the region.  I got this idea actually after our webinar organized one week ago.  I was cohosting between the Arab and the Lebanese IGF.  Actually it was remarkable webinar governing this idea about the network who compile the initiative in our region.  And through this network and we can share our thoughts if you are talking about how to effectively enforce our voices in the global tracks, okay, I think this ‑‑ might be helping our priorities.  I think how to make use engagement and trust.  This is one of my priorities.  Okay.  I see a lot of things, they have the knowledge, and the availability.  And I think sense, the capacity buildings for them to be engaged and to lead the future.  This is one of my prioritizations in our region.  I think digital divide this all becomes a priority in our region. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Thank you.  We will come to the interactive part with the audience.  I would like to ask, a question?  (Audio cutting out).
>> AUDIENCE: Thank you very much.  Advisory report member for digital democracy initiative.  It's a program is that focuses on supporting initiatives that help provide digital access particularly in the global south.  My question, there's a lot of conversation around multistakeholder engagement.  And there's also the conversation about funding for civil society in participating in these multistakeholder platforms but I'm also curious because there's a part about the governments not being a very active participant in these multistakeholder engagement platforms.  And I was wondering beyond funding, are there other reasons that prevent civil society organisations from participating?  And for the government, how democratized are these engagements?

Is there also a reason that keeps the government away from engaging actively?  With the different stakeholders in these platforms.  That's it.  My second question is, what are the top two priorities for civil society in this region?  Specifically, civil society what, are the top two priorities for civil society in this region.  Sorry I just wanted to get the questions out and then the last one is considering we've had conversations around private sector.  High how open is the process for them to understand that we can be willing participants in the process.

How involved are they in some of these policies that are made in the region?  Thank you. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Let me start from your last question because this is what the (audio cutting out).
>> ‑‑ will bring more focus to internet community as a whole.  Especially indicating the society about internet ecosystem as a whole.  And the end user benefit out of engaging with us.  So we will engage their voice.  Take their voice of the way of the decision makers and this is where we act as a society internally.  To shape up the ecosystem as a whole.  So they will be part of developing the whole legal system.  So I think indication is a focal point where we need ‑‑ and we are doing it already.  So we are doing a lot of workshops, seminars, online and face‑to‑face workshops in Saudis and we are getting momentum of every month we have seen the growth.  We have seen the actions.  We launched several initiative where we educate end user about what we could do to them.  Especially hearing their needs, requirements, stuff like that.  This is in one front.  I think the second question was about ‑‑
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Involvement in policymaking, how to ensure that others can invoke in the development of policymaking?
>> Absolutely and this is ‑‑ one of the major things that we are doing right now.  Is part of the education.  We are telling end user in order to be part of the effective development of internet ecosystem you have to be part of us, we have to hear your voice, you have to engage with us, and seminar, workshop, discussion groups, the stuff like that.  And this is where we take the opinion, very actively, and passing their needs to the decision maker from policy ‑‑ on the policymaking or on the regulator side and this is on the internet, on cyber security, and on other domains. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Thank you Dr. Wally.  And Dr. Christine with us online, kindly if you can reply to the first question which what stops the civil society other than funding from participating?

If you see another reason other than the issue of funding, so Christine, maybe you can reply to this? 
>> CHRISTINE ARIDA: Thank you, Qusai, can you hear me now I think for civil society likewise for all the other stakeholders, participating in a venue and engaging is all related to how much is at stake and how influential they can be to shaping the discussion, to participating, to really achieving something from the participation.  So of course funding is a very important topic for civil society but also if I talk about the region and I think this would apply to private sector and to civil society in the region there's a lot related to the maturity of how they can be influential in policymaking or in policy shaping in the region and if I take an example from the private sector if you look at the global north you would always find in private sector companies a public policy division.

Whereas if you come to our region, this is sometimes the least of their worries and it's only starting at picking up.  Similarly with civil society from the region.  Bottom line it's related to how much they can influence what, is happening and to ‑‑ how can they shape policies around what is at stake throughout? 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Let me pass the floor to our colleague Ayman (audio cutting out).  (No audio)
>> AYMAN EL‑SHERBINY: So this is very important point.  I think there are two words of intergovernmentism and multistakeholderism they can live very together smoothly they are two sides of a coin.

No side can ‑‑ or model work without the other.  So what is complimentary here?

It is the dialogue in the multistakeholder arenas and gathering such as forums and conference and so on would shape the ideas, would shape the positions, messages that should be taken further to the policymaking so it is policy support or policymaking.  Naturally happens in the government circles.  In most of the issues, not all of the issues, so here comes the role of governance and the way we put them together, multistakeholders with equal footing and everything is in the forums.  While we go to the league of Arab states or U.N. closed meeting assemblies or whatever we get all the decisions and resolutions and go further to adopt what is in the interest of the global public.  It's a global public good in the globe or in the region.  It is a public good so it has inputs from citizens, civil society and so on.  The interest is in the civil society alignment, with what is happening, and also business sector they see that most of the decisions pertaining to a global good is made elsewhere, outside of the region but the reality is through this regional forums we contribute to the global public policy making and this will also impact the governmental what is in the region so it's a continued loop.  The last thing which I want to bring to this very important question, is a forum with dialogue only without connecting tangent points, contact points with the decision‑making, will not also help, as I said, there are two sides of the coin, what is needed there also is the agenda for the region that everyone agrees to so there are objectives, a compass for everybody to try to achieve certain targets and this is in Europe.  This is now in the global digital agenda.  So we have an Arab digital agenda with the same characteristics and this has goals, targets agreed by everyone.  Multistakeholder agenda is a must as well as in this kind of dialogue forum so this complementary between having a goal or a compass, having two places for policy shaping, policymaking, three of them work together very smoothly and this is what we have in the region and we guarantee the commitment of heads of states into what the citizen and the youth aspire to the last message I will say more about tomorrow in the summit of the future we have five different facets.  Some of them related to political dimensions, at the global level of the General Assembly even.  Some related to the finance.  Some related to the digital and the youth.  So we are at the center of the summit of the future.  This digital platform is really the place where we not only shaping the digital future but the real future of the planet.  The policy.  The political paradigm and the next generation.  Thank you. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Thank you, I will pass the floor to the lady in the back.
>> AUDIENCE: Thank you all for very much for the discuss.  First, I am from Berlin, Germany, I would like to and all the panelists how do you see the regulatory framework to take on this regulation in the Arab world?  For example, if there's disinformation and misinformation meeting on the platform what is the primary approach the states take in this point in do you communicate with the platform directly to negotiate or something?  To see how to look for it?  How to tackle this phenomena or do you intervene directly?  What do you use to tackle this information and misinformation?  Thank you.
>> I would like to first address the ‑‑ thank you so much.  And I think all Arab visions have a legal framework. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: We hear you.
>> We have frameworks I think all regulatories are working on this framework every 3‑4 years following up any updates as you mentioned about the misinformation/disinformation.  I think there is also this communicating channels between the government and the platforms and the private sectors within the region of the country.  How far, many of the platforms are outside the country maybe the framework or the legal framework will not be applying on this platforms.  However, the channels are still running and communicated all over and update. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Thank you any other elaboration from the panels.
>> Thank you, if I may add, it's getting more complicated.  If you add AI as well.  So the misinformation in AI is going to be massive.  And I would urge you to read about the global initiative, about how AI initiative has been a framed work to make sure this kind of misinformation is tackled.  The framework talked about what should the action look like.  And it is evolving and we ‑‑ everybody would like to make sure the internet is a safe place, a trusted place and with now the global cooperation I don't think we will reach it to that point.  I think it's a global phenomenon and it's been tackled I think very efficiently.
>> Thank you so much.  I think to your intervention the AI is going to create a lot of, not only of misinformation and disinformation but it will propagate the disguise of the truth in general so that is really very complicated issue.  The plenary session before us here discussed the ideas related to the truthfulness and ethical matters and also the explainability as well as the discoverability of algorithms and this kind of things.  What we are doing in the international organizations region, we have developed a strategy for AI in the region; a vision for it.  And we connected this to the Arab digital agenda and we are currently putting metrics for measurement, the baseline now of readiness of maturity of adoption of AI and we are trying to put targets for the regions to combat this phenomena in collaboration with pertinent bodies which is UNESCO so we are working on that, it's like an uphill battle.  It's like the virus and antivirus.  The more you create antivirus the more people are trying to disguise.  With AI it's difficult but when the AI is under the jurisdiction of the humans, it is still manageable.  So the governance is by humans of the AI, and we will not really be afraid to combat this kind of threats.  And we think that it will continue like that.  There is an upper hand for the human intelligence that will control such kind of malicious behaviors.  Thank you. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Thank you, I will pass the floor to you from ISOC.
>> AUDIENCE: Hello everyone and thank you so much for giving me the chance to contribute to this valuable contribution.  I am the regional vice president at the international society for the Arab region.  I have two points one for the distinguished panelists and as well an intervention to feedback our colleague here from Berlin on her question from the regulatory framework and to complement what that distinguished panelist said.  So first my question to the panelist and this is I think an opportunity ‑‑
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Can we start with the intervention so we can remember the question?
>> AUDIENCE: So on the intervention and your question about the regulatory framework that could be there to prevent the information that could be present on the platform the interactive is a very, very useful research this year and will complete this research in the coming year on intermediary reliability and this is a legal framework that many of the developed regions and the countries has been working on and I think it will be very, very useful for our region as well as Arabs to look at intermediary reliability from that perspective and how to set the balance between protecting the platforms and as well protect the people and the users of the internet from any misinformation that could be prevailing on those platforms.  Striking a balance is something that is very useful in general and this framework from a regional perspective is very useful.  The document and the research will be announced on our platform in the second quarter of 2025.  And we have conducted the research on six countries including Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Jordan and Bahrain, that will give you context on whatever they have been mentioning and your concern or your question.  So I would refer this to you and maybe it'll be announced shortly.  On my question and this is a huge opportunity because all the pioneers from the Arab region who has been building the internet governance in our region are here.  So I would like to pose a direction about the future of forum coming soon that you and the (audio distorted).  More and more in the governance forum.  We see lack of governance present and definitely not all the stakeholder groups are there.  So how do you see this and how do you look at the process for that forum?  Thank you so much. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: I pass the floor to the panelists.
>> Thank you so much for the dear panelists.  For the first intervention it is not only the first.  But I know the question and tomorrow we will give more details but no in general I see the future and this is not political talking I see the future and it is bright.  I see it revived, restrengthened.  It's another wave.  Remember the IGF 9 one or two years afterwards in 2009?  We strengthened the ‑‑ our presence through this Arab IGF.  With this booster, in the IGF 19 in 2014 we have an agreement already and discussions with the Saudi government and we have discussed with them, with people in TRA, we want to strengthen and create the Arab 2.0.  Much more stronger, much more vital with goals and targets like the evolution we saw in the global IGFIGF live for a long period bottom up only until a certain point in time they created a leadership panel for example and now they connected more with the CSDT.  Connect with the General Assembly so connecting more with intergovernmentalism.  Now we already connect so we don't have a problem but as I said we have weakness that don't see a benefit.  We have waveness in civil society too.

They are not enough alined so together we are reviving a new wave and the last 8‑10 months are vital what you asked about the WSIS + 20 and let me give a word of comment.  She was work in her previous work in the IGF and WSIS + 10 process she knows how important it is.  At that time the global IGF + 10 in 2015 led to connection between IGF and 2030 agenda in General Assembly 70 over 125 resolution there was such a connection with the agenda.  Never has it been before.  So I see that after ten months from today, there is going to be a strong connection between the IGF process, the WSIS process and they will prevail hopefully for another ten years and maybe the list will be until 2030.  And while so doing they have never had this before so this strengthened.  Also in the region we have an agenda.  So I see the future as really bright in the region globally and at the national level too.  We started by Arab IGF and then the Lebanese IGF and now we see the national, north African, so things are mature ing.

And the citizens themselves will play a bigger role and the next generation together with ISOP and with other member countries.  Thank you. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Please.
>> If I may add as well and thank you very much Ayman.

The good thing about IGF itself it is a platform for discussion to be honest and people come here with open‑minded kind of open topics.  And the more we have this kind of platform to discuss the idea especially at this stage where a lot of factors in a place, we are talking about ICAN and the initiative of new GTLDs around, and talks about it.  Things about what we discussed on AI and how its impact the global usage of the internet and there are a lot of topics that are really energizing.  So this kind of platform I think the more we have like IGF where we discuss ideas, we meet with experts, decision makers, I think our thoughts will bring it together more and more and everybody who worked a long time in internment we understand that it is a multistakeholder approach.  Internet without having a collaboration and connectivity everywhere, it is not internet per se.  So thank you very much for raising this.
>> Thank you, I'm not going to add anything new.  Trust among stakeholders is mandatory and to avoid avoiding.  Avoid avoiding being here, avoid avoiding participation, avoid avoiding engagement.  Let's talk.  We are different stakeholders.  We have different mindsets.  We have different perspective.  We have different priorities.  It's normal to be not in the same line but let's keep dialogue.  Let's keep being here in engagement and discussing and showing our perspectives, thank you.
>> Thank you Ahmed.  Just ‑‑ I will reflect on the question.  It's a very particular question.  And I cannot agree more with all my colleagues and friends.  But I will take this opportunity for a call.  For a call to the Arab community.  For a call to all Arab stakeholders to commit and to go and fill all the open consultations that make the Arab IGF sustainable for the next 5‑10‑15 years.

It's the only venue for inclusivity, for bottom up to voice concerns.  So during all these consultations, as technical community, as NCC we recognize and recommitted to a multistakeholder environment that the IGF is fostering and this is why my call for all the Arab stakeholders to go online, fill the consultations and make your voice heard that the IGF should be sustainable, should be there, to discuss all the concerns and all the changes that everyone of us is facing.  Thank you Qusai.
>> Let me take the privilege as a coordinator to give the floor to our dear colleague who witnessed the process and internet governance since the start and he was a member of the civil society bureau.  And we have the privilege that he is with us and looking at the evolution of the WSIS.

And continuing the IGF.  So I will take it as a privilege to give you the floor.
>> AUDIENCE: Thank you very much Qusai and thank you all for having me.  I think that we are with the same evolution of the IGF.  Since the agenda, IGF was created there and we had ten where we had the possibility to have output.

At the beginning there was no output.  Now we have output but it is not binding to anyone.  It is only from the book someone said last time so this is an evolution but we need evolution.  We need to have these recommendations be considered by the decision‑making people.  By people who are deciding on behalf of us so at the multistakeholder model is the only model that can give me the possibility to express my opinion.

Since I am civil society so I don't have any decision‑making right.  I can give my opinion.  And this multistakeholder model should be considered, should be improved in my point of view.  It should be improved so it will be a multistakeholder model.  We need more.  Civil society people don't have the possibility to go to the meetings because they are not funded to go there but fortunately with the sources of funding is not enough in my point of view.  They cannot express their opinion as well as the governments that pay for it as well as the private sector that have a financial interest so they are paid to go there and to express their point of view.  This model should be improved in my point of view and we have to fight for it.  There is no other model of governance that can give all people to express themselves.  Now about the evolution, as you know, GDC plus 20, the problem is that there is a lack of participation from our region.  Unfortunately, I think that it is too short 10 months is too start to have the opinion of the region about the evolution of business.  WSIS + 20.  She is right because we don't have something already prepared.

And we should have prepared it much before this time.  But no problem if you want we can work on it.  We can do that but we need the engagement of everyone.  A real engagement.  It is not about ‑‑ at the bringing this kind of people or this ‑‑ these are ‑‑ we have to have the opinion of all people and my point of view we have to have the opinion of all the national and the sub regional IGFs in our region and also for the Arab IGF.  We have to have also the opinion of all the chapters in our region.  This will help to shape if you want, the opinion, the opinion about this evolution.  We don't have to be absent in this occasion.  Thank you Qusai. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: I think our panelist has a question.  If we can pass the floor to Christine. 
>> CHRISTINE ARIDA: Thank you Qusai.  So I didn't mean for putting forward that very important question and I would like to recall here a discussion that happened yesterday in the NRI coordination session where if I recall Chapelle has put forward a proposal that all NRIs across the globe in their sessions between here and between Riyadh and Norway IGF that they initiate a discussion about how they would like to see the mandate of the IGF renewed and produce actual paragraph or text about the IGF.  And I think that's a very innovative idea though it's basic, it is very innovative because if, if we can harness the power of grassroots in terms of looking at the future of IGF I think there is a real impact of what can be done in the multilateral process that will look at the WSIS + 20 renewal and an update in the renewal and from that we can lead by example within the Arab region.

I think what we need to see is a very thorough discussion about the renewal of the mandate of the IGF that should happen in the upcoming Arab IGF and we should so that feeding into the ministerial sessions whether within league of Arab states and others to shape the intergovernmental process in that area.  And to add one final comment to that, the IGF has done a lot K you hear me?  So the IGF has had a lot of knowledge, has had a lot of dialogue, a lot of discussion.

Even outcomes, we have policy outcomes, policy recommendation.  I think what we should be focusing on at this stage is defining the difference between digital governance and internet governance because this is one point that needs to be tackled the other point is linkages how can the outcomes actually feed into actual decision‑making elsewhere and we've been saying that but we haven't been doing it so good.  I think those two points are very important for the IGF in addition to solid proposal about how to empower the IGF in terms of funding and resources.  Thank you very much. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Thank you, Christie.  Any questions from the audience?  Let me just make a comment.  I had the privilege to attend the action data.  (Background chatter).  During the preparation session there the Arab world was represented by the kingdom of Saudi Arabia.  They presented what they are doing in terms of digital cooperation and regarding the issues related to the digital compact.  Yet, they represented the view from our part of the world.  That to preserve the interest of the key players here and the global players.  There's a lot (audio distorted).  And Microsoft and so on.  And other regional groups.  And it was reflecting our point of views and having the context of these documents that represents our interest and priorities so leading this back, the next ten months I agree it is short.  But it's important.  With governments being our umbrella and representing our legitimate interest as all stakeholders and they will be on the table.  Protecting our interests and priorities.  We need to pass the view of who we want.  From, let's say beyond WSIS + 20 and what we want from the IGF as an evolution beyond 25 years.

And how we want this to be set up in the Arab world after the evolution that we see on the landscape regarding internet governance.  Not necessarily a specific platform but national, regional and our interaction with the global forum so in that sense really we need to follow the timeline from here to July which is the high level event that we'll take in Geneva.  I think the host will be the International Telecommunication Union and up to the General Assembly session that will be the last to say go to go our not and that either will take ‑‑ so far, it is December 25, so far, but this is all to be done.  And any final comment from the audience?  Well, do you have an intervention?
>> AUDIENCE: Thank you.  With the technical community and RIPE region I really admire the Arab region in terms of how much effort has been made to include everyone and have a lot of, especially for the youth, Internet Governance Forums that are taking place in different region.  So I just wished that this enthusiasm continues past this WSIS + 20 review with a revived IGF.

And not just 10‑15 years I think some people are calling for the unlimited life of this useful platform but one important in addition to what was said please fill in the open consultation forum on the ITU's website.  I think we also have an opportunity in June for the next IGF in Norway.  To get together and think about these proposal that Christine has mentioned, how NRIs could have more connections with other U.N. agencies and I think speakers on the panel have said to have more of this bottom up inclusion, so if we have a new leadership panel for example maybe they should come from NHIs, for people who have been involved in the process so let's not mistake opportunity.  Thank you.
>> Thank you.  I will give the last word to my colleague to wrap up the workshop, thank you.
>> Thank you I took some notes as final remarks and I hope that I didn't miss any point.  But please feel free to correct me to add any other key message from the session.  So first of all, I thank you all very much, dear panelists, dear audience, it really was a very interesting, very interactive and it's an opportunity and this is the advantage of the IGF.  Getting all of us in the same room.  The key message that I noticed, first, congratulations to Saudi for hosting this and for the doctor for the Saudi IGF.  And we hope we will have other IGFs.  Thank you.  Second, there is is message for strengthening collaboration among NRIs, I said that now.  Capacity building and exhibit.  There is a demand.  Especially for the society.  Yes we need capacity building and fellowship.  And funds to get them the tool to attend these meetings.  The fourth point, about the sustainable and evolving IGF that our colleague was mentioning a very interesting question.  Yes, we need to have a new commitment.  We need to renew our appointments for a sustainable IGF that includes all the voices.  And last point I noted here is the absence of Arab voices at the global level.  The global scene.  So please once again, Desiree and Christine, myself, please go ahead and fill the open consultations and make your voice heard so these are the five points that I think Qusai will be the takeaway from this workshop.  And hopefully these discussions will continue.  Ayman, you have the floor ‑‑
>> AYMAN EL‑SHERBINY: We thank you for this important session and one more.  The road to IGF 7 is going to take place from 23‑27 of February.  So on our way to Norway, we will pas by a men, so remember a men then Geneva and for Norway and then all the way until the General Assembly.  A men, third week ‑‑ fourth week of February.  And before that, tomorrow, here 11:30 in room 10 for the consultation.  One step on the road for the WSIS + 20.  Ten months are still valuable.  So in room 10. 
>> QUSAI ALSHATTY: Let me take the opportunity to give a warm applause to our distinguished panelists and our wonderful audience who remained with us for the whole workshop and I want to thank you for your activity and listening to us.  So thank you, all, and see you around hopefully.  Thank you.  Bye.