The following are the outputs of the captioning taken during an IGF intervention. Although it is largely accurate, in some cases it may be incomplete or inaccurate due to inaudible passages or transcription errors. It is posted as an aid, but should not be treated as an authoritative record.
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>> AISHA: Thank you to our all-female panel. Can we have a round of applause, please? Also, to my wonderful colleague, Neil who did all of the work to pull the session together. I can't see you. We have had some brilliant men that supported this and Joe and Cara from Oxford. And without a delay, I will ask we have a slightly new panel and I will encourage our colleagues here to introduce yourselves.
We will go one by one. I will start with Yasmine and go to Thalia and to Aisha and to Fatima if that is okay. When you introduce yourself, tell us what brings you here today. Thank you Yasmine.
>> Yasmin: Good morning. I work at the United Nations special agency for ICTs and fun fact it is the oldest agency turning 160 years old next year.
I have been working for 5 years now in cybersecurity and in plan supporting countries when coming to policymaking around cybersecurity and with many, many projects looking to close the gender divide in this particular field. Working a lot with women has been a privilege and pleasure for the past five years and I look forward to exchanging with some of you. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Yasmin. Thalia?
>> THALIA: Hello. I'm a woman in the cyber fellow and relatively new in the field and learned so much to progress lately and looking forward to discuss.
>> MODERATOR: Thank you so much, Aisha.
>> AISHA: I'm Aisha and from Nigeria and in tech industry for 21 years. And I'm a woman in tech fellow for cybersecurity, and I lead women and girls in the tech industry and particularly for cyber space and realize from the place I come from I have a percentage from the cyber space and advocate for STEM and for women and girls and thank you.
>> MODERATOR: Thank you so much. Really inspiring. Fatima.
>> FATIMA: Hello. This is the first time as a panelist. Give me a minute. I'm in a programme with my colleague here in the Womens Cybersecurity Fellowship and work in National Cybersecurity Center Kuwait and giving awareness to people in cybersecurity perspective.
>> MODERATOR: Thank you so much. I know you are all very informed. So I'm going to trust us to do a slightly different session.
Could I go across the panel and ask you what you think the biggest challenge there is to equality in cyber that you have seen? We will come around again and talk about the biggest learning opportunity that you have taken on.
So, we will start, Aisha, do you mind? Challenge to achieving equality in cyber.
>> AISHA: For me the biggest challenge is getting the right resources.
Technology is not cheap, and we will start. For if you want to build a carrier in cybersecurity, you need the right resources and working tools and how much is the cost of a good quality laptop today? You can go watch videos on your phone.
You will you be able to practice on your phone? You need good Internet, and it is not cost effective and for me financing is one of the greatest challenges as far as I can say from the place that I come from.
>> MODERATOR: Thank you. Yasmin?
>> YASMIN: I would like to echo that. Challenges are across three main points. One is financial barriers to access to ICTs in general and many women and vulnerable populations as well are still facing today.
The second is actually for example women being proportionately affected by online risks that could be a hindrance for online participation let alone in cybersecurity workforce participation. The third is, I think, the general issue of the workforce gap that we have in cybersecurity.
Some of you may know, but we have actually millions of jobs vacant in the cyber field not at entry level but different levels as well where actually the issue is also needing people to be multidisciplinary experts.
Not alone but need today be cybersecurity experts but also an expert in whichever thing they are set to protect whether energy or export or critical infrastructure one needs cyber expertise and infrastructure to protect and create barriers.
I feel our education systems are still a little bet siloed in that way. They are not yet ready for that kind of profiles to be coming out.
And, of course, having this issue is the first level, which is the recruitment. You also have retention issues a lot.
Cybersecurity is a field that is very male‑dominated.
And so often times I have heard stories of women that have managed to break that barrier and enter but end up not staying because of the hostility of the environment at times and also the very fact that you have hours that are absolutely crazy for cybersecurity expertise experts and incident responders in particular, they have to be available 24/7. That of course clashes with work/life balance and familial or family obligations. This unfortunately causes retention issues.
So, the point here is resources, more inclusion of people from backgrounds that are not ‑‑ let's say from the global north or privilege backgrounds and making and creating things ‑‑ a field where retention is also possible.
And, of course, lowering the risks and lowering the threats that disproportionately affect marginalized groups online. Thank you.
>> MODERATOR: Thank you. I'm writing this down as you speak. Before I pass it over to my colleagues here, the both of you have made really important points, which I would just like to emphasize again. I see nods in the audience which you are speaking, which is about the relevance and the importance of a holistic approach and hole of society approach, which we will come back to in a moment. Thank you for those points.
Also, retention. How do we ‑‑ once you bring people into the world of cyber and once you initiate and when we see this apply and see relationship in countries and see dialogue on how we start to collaborate on cyber and how do you continue as you become more and more mature in this space, what is the next goal? What is the next point in the horizon to improve our work on cyber and brilliant and thank you for your reflections.
To you, Alia, what challenges you have seen in equality to cyber?
>> I think my colleagues highlighted everything beautifully and reiterated everything very, very beautifully and want to add to what my colleague said. The kind of gender barrier we have in this field is really large. Growing up in the kingdom of Baren, we are very, very into equality and have supreme council for women and have been encouraged and never really felt a difference and when you enter the field you enter a whole new world and look at things and are kind of taken aback. This is a challenge and think it will be a challenge for a long time. But I think there have been beautiful initiatives especially like the fellowship I'm part of which is to empower women in the Gulf. Another area I want to touch base on is a large issue, there is a really big skills gap.
I think my colleague mentioned that. Bring the mic. Sorry. I hope you can hear me better now.
Based on what my colleague Yasmin mentioned about having jobs available but not enough people to fulfill them, I think there is a barrier here because of new people that entered the field. It is an emerging field and area and lots of people have entered the field and not given enough opportunities because they weren't experienced enough or don't have the right certifications.
Early in your career, you will never be experienced enough. Not a lot of people want to take a chance or risk on people not experienced enough and is a skills gap and same with people transferring from other fields starting in marketing and want to be can cybersecurity specialist not lots of people get opportunity to jump ship and try something new because of say how much experience is required to do this and this is something particularly touching for me as I'm relatively young and entering this field. Not a lot of people wanted to take a chance on me. You are young and what can you give and contribute? I'm thankful for the opportunities I have been given and is something I really wanted to highlight. Thank you.
>> MODERATOR: Thank you, Alia. We are so privileged to have your perspective, and I'm sure many here learned from what you said and what you highlighted here is that there are so many angles to equality.
I know I reference being very delighted that I accompanied all of you. We are not representative even if we feel that we are a fairly diverse panel of all of the perspectives. Youth is part of it.
Regional representation, cross‑sector, gender, diversity, and that is why we have to see you in the audience to have better representation and inclusion once we have a wider conversation. I will come to that in a moment.
Fatima, do you have thoughts to add on challenges for equality in cyber.
>> FATIMA: Yes. I agree with you. Cybersecurity is important. I want to add to the topic educating children. To be honest, now we live in a field where children have been using the digital every day in their life and they are using their iPad or phones or whatever they are using.
Educating them about can cybersecurity and awareness is very important to build a good and safe digital infrastructure for them.
So, trying since they are using like digital like the whole day or let's say at least 5 hours a day. It is really important to aware them how to use them in a correct way. That is my note.
>> MODERATOR: That is looking at that is a really great bridge. I think what you talk about, Fatima, is the future. Our children are our future. We must look after them and think about the challenges ahead. So I would like to do this thing where we think about something positive after thinking about the challenges. I'm sure all of you have fantastic ideas.
So, let's pivot towards opportunities. And as I mentioned, sadly, we couldn't hear from the speakers online. We had a fantastic speaker, confidence, who is a brilliant cyber practitioner and was ready to join us.
I think you are nodding. Aisha, you know. Should we have a moment to talk about confidence?
>> AISHA: Confidence is 1 person I found early when I decided to go into cybersecurity and she has put in so much work for people back in Nigeria to join fellowships and have access to trainings especially for women and girls in the cybersecurity industry and is not just a speaker and moderator and trainer but someone who gives quality and gives all to see that women and girls have the right opportunity to get started in the tech industry and particularly at the cyber space.
She has like a yearly programme open for fellowships.
The number of applications that usually comes in is so large, like really large.
At the end of the day, it boils down to resources.
I mean, not all applications can go through because of the kind of resources available.
She is someone who I see as a mentor all the time from afar and trying to emulate and do things she does in my day.
>> MODERATOR: Thank you we are grateful and confidence that you could dial in and give this reflection.
The other speaker we wanted to hear from on opportunities is the ‑‑ is the Oxford global Cybersecurity Capacity Center. Many of you might have worked with them and kindly and rapidly I have been sent remarks by colleagues that were hoping to join, and they developed a methodological framework that at the Foreign Office we supported countries with engaging and adopting and had fantastic feedback on that model.
The idea behind that actually touches on all of the points that we have heard here, which is using a framework to assess your country's cyber maturity across a range of perspectives to understand across five dimensions the areas in which your country can improve and in which it is already doing well.
A big part of that is looking at the whole of society’s approach.
So how is industry involved? How are policymakers involved? This is so relevant for the space we are in here today in Riyadh. We are in a unique forum that is so multistakeholder. You can probably find all of the experts you need in this building. That is a really interesting model. I encourage participants not familiar with it to look at the cyber maturity model there.
I would just like to add that in terms of the opportunities and before we ‑‑ we go to the floor. I think we want to start networking.
Oxford has found that this holistic lens that you can adopt helps to identify unknown risk.
So, I think what we talked about here are the known risks we have all ‑‑ I think probably all of us have come into this space because we are motivated by some of the challenges that we have seen, but there are unknown challenges and unheard voices.
Having a framework that helps you do that kind of holistic assessment also provides the opportunity to consider the disadvantaged communities that don't have that voice to articulate their needs.
And also to find a more future‑proofed way to tackle issues in cyber if we are thinking ahead. So, some key things to think about.
How do we ensure that we progress in a sustainable way, an equitable way. What I will do is final remarks from the stage on all those points and anything else that our panelists would like to add and say and encourage our network and our audience to think about and take forward.
Then I suggest that we all say hello and we can have a conversation.
And sincere apology for the lack of hybrid and will come to the fantastic panelists for some reflections before we come and join you and you are ready, and we think you have ideas, and we will start with you.
>> Thank you, Aisha. We talked about challenges, of course. It is not all bleak, and there is many opportunities out there, and it is not lack of will from women and marginalized communities, but structural and institutional barriers are still there for us to break down.
All in all, what I really want to highlight is how we can actually use the power of communities.
It is through communities that we are able to create more equal spaces.
In the case, for example, of women that are often being left out of formal processes and of what we call boys clubs, at times, the power is actually has been to create informal communities of women that are learning from each other and that are connecting with each other interregionally as well and creating informal communities that will go on and become formal ones of tomorrow once they get to leadership positions.
So, again, this kind of space today and IGF as well is definitely something to look forward to in terms of community building as well and support networks that are definitely also key there.
I'm looking forward to the networking discussions with you all. Thank you.
>> MODERATOR: Thank you, Yasmin. Aisha?
>> AISHA: To add to what Yasmin said. We have a couple of men in the house.
I would like to (?) Please the girls in your life support them from an early age. The biggest challenge we are having is support from home and especially where I came from. It is kind of difficult for you to go out there and do things and get the right support and if you are trying to run from your shadow or don't have right support to get going. I was fortunate to have support from my father at early age. I learned from him and he handheld me through processes until he passed away and I was able to marry someone who was very supportive. You see?
For that reason, my dreams keep going and I keep identifying things I want to achieve and go for it and imagine a young girl sitting in a house would wants to do a lot and doesn't have the right support from home and more of going to meet right community online and to be able to explore all opportunities she has today.
I would like to pledge that. Support all of the women and girls that I in your life first and encourage them to be the leaders that could also pass the baton to others. Thank you.
>> MODERATOR: Beautifully said. Alia?
>> ALIA: Again, they highlighted things so beautifully. I just want to say that we can't neglect the fact that there has been some progress made and been some very wonderful and formal communities especially here in the Middle East and women and Cybersecurity in the Middle East there have been given lots of opportunities and training and collaboration between people and across different fields we are cybersecurity professionals all not in let's say the same field and want to say that collaboration is key and only way forward is through collaboration. I hope we can take everything from the conversation today and build a better future. Thank you.
>> MODERATOR: Couldn't agree more. Fatima.
>> FATIMA: I couldn't agree more with what colleagues said and believe in yourself and find people with same passion as you and educate yourself and information when you grab it on Instagram or TikTok or whatever try to educate yourself. When we are in cyber right now. Threats are a lot. Don't try to hide your identity or give information to anyone. I don't know how to say it, but to make it yours, always educate yourself on any information you get. Surround yourself with knowledgeable people where you can spread information and spread awareness about cybersecurity, and it is really important. If you are not technical it doesn't have to be technical unless you try. If you have social media, try to protect how to protect social media like enabling two‑factor authentication or check in your activities.
These are very important and try to share knowledge. Sharing knowledge like we all are here today is really important so that everybody can level up in cybersecurity awareness. That is for you guys.
>> MODERATOR: Such a key message. Brilliant. What I hear from this is empower yourself and empower others, and we will all have a better future if we do that.
I want to actually take a minute. I realize we talked about diverse perspectives, and we recognized that we haven't ‑‑ we can't reflect all of the viewpoints in the room.
Before we network, I want to ‑‑ we have a fantastically engaged audience that I can see you nodding along as we speak.
I want to ask if there are any audience members here who have a view that we haven't, you know, been able to reflect yet and any suggestions or any comments on challenges and opportunities? A hand! Yes, please.
>> ADNAN: Thank you so much. I'm from Iraq and work with a local NGO in Iraq educating women and girls as well. One point not reflected in regard to challenges is how and when the country is ready to engage or open. A lot of times when you start these kind of campaigns, there is a lot of pressure from ‑‑ from different sides from the government and from the ‑‑ like from ‑‑ from some other stakeholders that they do ‑‑ they want to go in parallel with the ‑‑ with the social norms. They don't want to change. They feel like you guys, for example, are ‑‑ are teaching our girls things they can take and connect with the world and you bring back things to the family and result of the family and want to reflect that as well. Thank you.
>> MODERATOR: Thank you so much, Adnan. Anyone from the audience want to share their perspectives before we commence to our in‑person networking? Ah, yes.
>> Thank you for having this. (?). From the beginning when you have started with the challenges that are things which you have mentioned and wish I consider that. Important, you know when there is no good infrastructure, it is a very big challenge.
When we go to the ‑‑ as you have said, you go to the early education and where you ‑‑ a child is starting from home. If the father have no anything, he will start to ‑‑ what we call a silent response. Silent response you don't know if supportive or not. If I'm a father and don't have anything and child is demanding something I love him but don't have something, it will become a challenge. It is good if we have that support.
I have seen nowadays all of the organizations that are just searching and serving life and all these things. While there are other countries which need support from the area for education and where they can bring all of the people on board.
So, it is very important to ‑‑ to have these things in our line. Otherwise, we will have a gap. It will not be felt. We feel we have some years to go.
At that time, it will become a challenge when you have people who are lagging behind. Thank you.
>> MODERATOR: Thank you so much, gentleman, for the comment. Is there anything before ‑‑ the mic going to say we look forward to your suggestions as well and anything that you think would help with you that that we can all reflect on? I will just say one more thing that is a theme that I have heard that is resources and materials and accessing resources that help us understand how to do this better.
It would be remiss of me not to mention that UK National Cybersecurity Center has done work to produce guides and materials you can access online that give you a ‑‑ you know, basic kind of tools and advice on how to navigate a number of challenges we have heard here.
For those that might not be familiar with that, I would encourage you to take a look at those and NCSC national cybersecurity center and look at those.
Okay. We have had comments from the audience and reflections of panel and Eddy, final views before we wrap up being on here?
>> We are looking forward to networking.
>> MODERATOR: Amazing. Before we come down, if you have any questions or would like to continue conversation and want to hear about work that Oxford does on cybersecurity models, feel free to pass your contact to me. I can take that, and we can find a way to continue the conversation outside of this next 15 minutes.
Could I have a round of applause for our fantastic panel, please?
>> AUDIENCE: [Applause].
>> MODERATOR: We will come see you now. Thank you. Thank you, Fuad and Joe. We were trying to keep the hybrid going. [Laughing].
[Networking.]